Thursday, January 31, 2008

20 Questions Continuing On....

Here's some more responses from "Chris", an IBO who was involved with Amway/Quixtar for about 10 years. A few extra questions on this one, and some number crunching as well. One thing I noticed about some of the responses were that they were extremely similar to many, many other people's experience.

When people share their perceptions and thoughts in publicly viewable forums such as this, it becomes more and more obvious that Amway's initial responses of it being a rare or isolated case were case studies in spin doctoring. Moreover, when people have the guts and confidence to share their experiences like this, more people jump on board the quitter train because they come to understand that the problem was NOT them, it is likely either the leadership or the business itself.

Chris makes some very mature and thought out points. Try to keep up...

6. How long into this business until you started to see some issues?
This one makes me smile.
One week! After I had been told I could do this at my own pace, my sponsor called me after the first Open Meeting and said our Ruby was in town & wanted to do a house meeting at my place. I was to fill my house up on Friday night. I was taken aback but I did. 3 people were sponsored after that first meeting. The next major function was about a month from then & I crossed stage as 1000 PV.

Dexter Yager spoke at that function. Here was this man on stage who was saying virtually nothing. I was sitting with my sponsors, their sponsor who was at 4000 PV, and the people in my downline. As I looked around, everyone in our upline was all frantically writing down everything Dexter was saying. I was amazed. I walked out of that session and sat in the hallway wondering if they were possessed or what. There was a dog show at (Name of facility removed) at the same time & I wondered around in there for awhile. When I returned, I went back into the session, and Dexter was still talking. And still saying nothing of any value or substance as far as I was concerned. Then he came on stage again about 11 p.m. He went on, and on, and on, it’s way past midnight & there is no sign that he is going to let up soon. I remember being very annoyed but when I expressed any displeasure, those in the upline simply smiled and didn’t reply. Then I was told by the 4000 PV upline that Dexter was a bazillion times more successful than she was so he must know what he is talking about. I had a bad gut feeling that night & in hindsight that should have been my exit from the business. Over the years, I never did warm up to Dexter.

Later issues became the incessant tools. After 100 tapes, they all started to sound the same, there was nothing new on them. Almost every meeting we had, we were reminded that if we weren’t growing it was because we weren’t listening to enough tapes or reading enough and to just increase that & everything would fall into place.
The prices of the products/the shipping & handling costs. Slow subtle increases were introduced over the years, especially after the Amway business was turned over to the second generation. Explaining this away remained the same however. “One has to be prepared to pay more for quality.” The quality didn’t change but the price for it sure did. And greater than the rate of inflation.
“Fake it till you make it” was strongly promoted as well as “If you stay in, you will win”. I had issues with that. Faking it in my mind is a form of lying and I was very uncomfortable with that.
People who quit were labeled losers and quitters. They were accused of not having big enough dreams and they weren’t worth wasting our time on. I had major issues with that. But said nothing. It soon became apparent that anyone under Gold Direct was really considered stupid despite any success they had achieved in their lives prior to the business and that there was no one more intelligent than those in the business who were at any level higher than you.

People who stopped the standing order tapes & books or didn’t attend seminars/functions/meetings (weren’t “plugged in” to the system) were also not worthy to be associated with. Not being able to afford it was no excuse and even though the system was “optional”, so was success. We were told if we missed one function, it was like we had a cold, if we missed two, it was like we had pneumonia, and if we missed three, we were dead.
After a few years into the business, one of my downline ladies developed an illness & after a couple of years, died. A few days after her funeral there was a summer picnic in (Name of Town withheld). The 4000 PV upline was a Gold Direct by then and she badgered me about attending this picnic. I really did not want to go, I had been closely and directly involved in the lady’s care & her family needed my support after she died. But I caved & I went. It was a waste of time. FED was upcoming shortly after that. I decided to fly that year because the bus ride was simply brutal. I had my plane ticket but decided I just did not want to go. My Emerald really pressured me at a local picnic social gathering about a week before. That time I stood my ground & said I was not going to go. I did not go. During the subsequent years in the business, this Emerald couple offered very little support & although they always said hello, that was about it. It was directly related to my refusal to take their advice, like they took it as a personal affront. Prior to that, there were hugs & great excitement at each meeting. Deception like that became a huge issue for me. Not only this was this demonstrated by this Emerald couple but anyone who appeared on stage promoted themselves as great leaders who upheld values like honesty, integrity, good character but their behavior off stage often demonstrated the opposite.

For as long as I can remember behavior always spoke more to me about the person’s character & leadership abilities as opposed to uttered words alone.

Personalities: we all read Florence Littauer’s Personality Plus. Sanguines & cholerics were promoted big time. Melancholies & phelgmatics were made fun of regularly. This was true on and off stage. I happen to be a strong choleric with a fair bit of melancholy, almost none of me is sanguine nor phlegmatic. I had major issues with people being made fun of because of their personality throughout my time in the business. I believe it contributed to many people quitting. It seemed like a little bit of knowledge in the heads of some in the upline was dangerous. They did not know how to use this or how to be good stewards of the information.

Admonishing IBOs from on stage at major functions. I remember one such function in particular where Columbo & Karen Disalvatore were the main speakers. Instead of sharing words of wisdom, he spent one afternoon telling everyone how disgusted he was by all the cigarette butts he saw outside the building. And this was how he achieved a Diamond level in the business? Wasted trip. And we were expected to edify him.

Over-edifying the upline and de-edifying the downline was a huge issue for me. Our upline would state that we were building our own businesses, however, in reality we were really building theirs. I really felt we were seen through dollar signs in many of their eyes. Incessant edifying was akin to worshipping to me. This over-edifying over the years developed into huge egos for them. They called themselves leaders but there wasn’t much humility displayed by any of them. But arrogance & cockiness sure was displayed. A lot. Far too many became “uncriticizable” and if one even implied a mild criticism, it was received as downright shocking and blasphemous. After 8 years in the business, I started to wonder why if these over-edified people were that great wasn’t at least one of them nominated for a Nobel Prize. By the time I left, that progressed to thinking at least one of them should be recognized as the next messiah for sure.

The caste system. Rather than the various levels of achievement viewed as just that, there was way too often a holier than thou attitude emanating from upline to downline. The higher the level or the higher the upline, the greater the edification required. Even now a critic’s credibility is solely based upon the level of achievement in the business. It’s as if it is thought that as each level of achievement is reached, higher levels of honesty & integrity are somehow magically instilled at that moment. Strange thinking. Results in effectively shutting the majority of people up, though, doesn’t it? Plays into the delusion that the more money one earns, the more intelligent one is. We see that in the world outside A/Q with many people who have university degrees viewing themselves as more intelligent than those who don’t.

The political and religious promotions. It was as if they believed we were simply not smart enough to make these choices for ourselves. If there was no participation in these events, one was labeled as not being plugged in. It was part of the system and being plugged in meant participating in all that was promoted. Plugged in equaled assured success; not plugged in explained all lack of success.

Questions were met with suspicion and very/too often labeled as being negative. “Don’t ask, just do as we say.” The upline also said on occasion that the information I needed to know was privileged and as I achieved higher levels, I would then be privy to whatever information I was seeking. Or, attend the next function & I would hear what I needed to know there. That always struck me as strange & for a long time I couldn’t grasp the need for this secrecy.

Having worked with many people from all walks of life for 30+ years, I had learned that when there were major issues to always go look/investigate further wherever people were steering you from. In 2003, I took the bull by the horns and began googling Amway/Quixtar on the internet.

What I found blew my mind. I found out about the Kenny Stewart & TIF terminations and subsequent resignations of Diamonds in the business. Kenny Stewart had spoken at a couple of major functions, so had Andy Andrews, the Hughes and the Cassens. I had really liked those people. I searched more & that’s when I discovered that tons of money was being made on the tools & functions. All along I had heard the system was non-profit & was simply provided to help us stay motivated enough to work hard to build Diamond level businesses. “See how good our leaders are. They’re doing this for you out of the goodness of their hearts.” Not. Huge red flag for me. Huge. We were led to believe the Diamonds were very, very wealthy from building huge organizations in the A/Q business opportunity. I realized we had been lied to. That was definitely the last straw for me. I realized we were steered away from the internet because of the truths the so-called leaders did not want us to know. Crosslining was discouraged for the same reasons.

I began to research mind control/brainwashing techniques as well as different manipulative styles and how to handle them. I continued to purchase the tapes/videos/books and attended the seminars/functions/meetings but after that listened with a “different” ear. The lies jumped off the stage and the tools at me. Instead I saw phonies. I stopped contacting and showing the plan. I started grumbling under my breath at functions and felt sick to my stomach. I stopped edifying. I stopped participating in the system about mid-2004. I stayed as long as I did after these discoveries because I felt guilty about “abandoning my downline”. We had been told true leaders don’t do that; we had a responsibility to those people to stay in. Also a lie.

I discovered after I quit the business none of my downline thought any less of me and occasional contact with them continues to this day. Eventually they all quit too except for one couple who has been inactive since 2005 & only renew to buy the products at IBO cost.

7. What was promoted most by your upline, products or system?

The system by far was promoted most of the time. Products were too but to a much lesser extent. We were encouraged to hold Artistry & cookware home clinics and we had product seminars – Nutrilite, the water filter, Artistry. At Christmas, locally we had an open house where the IBO’s set up tables with product displays/promotions. In the later years, products were displayed at the back of the room during local monthly seminars.
Selling the products was not promoted. Only after someone said they couldn’t afford a ticket or the system, they were advised to “sell some stuff”. After reading the Business Compendium, I asked once early in the business about the 10 customer rule and was told it didn’t apply to our Diamond’s group.

8. Did your line of affiliation have its own system?

No, at first we were with Internet Services (Dexter) and the last few years with (Name of organization and leader withheld). I don’t know when or why that change occurred – we were not told.

9. How much did your system cost on a monthly basis?

Difficult question to answer because there are many hidden costs associated. I have to break it down.

Standing order Tapes/books/videos: about $185 - $250 (including GST/shipping), average $224.50

Monthly seminars: $20 (excluding GST)

Open Meetings: $5.00

Quarterly Major functions in (Name of town withheld): $100 for the ticket; 3 nights in a hotel = around $200; travel to (Name of town withheld) = varied, often we would carpool & share gas costs, I would say about $40 depending on distance; meals about $75 for the weekend. These are conservative estimates, sometimes it would be a bit more. So, every 3 months this equals $415. $415 ÷ 4 = $138/month (excluding tax)

FED once a year: $100 for the ticket; travel to/from (Name of town withheld) to board the bus $90; bus ticket $150; hotel in Salt Lake City or Phoenix for one night (shared) $30; meals $50 = $370. $370 ÷ 12 = $31.

Aggravation: not calculated

Time: not calculated

Salary lost from unpaid leaves of absence from work: not calculated

Total monthly estimated cost: $224.50 + $20 + $5 + $138 + $31 = $518.50

Not included in this calculation is the cost involved in tool pickup once a week from my sponsor, nor the cost of shipping/delivering tools to downline or the time involved with those activities. Or purchasing extra tools like tape packs, business promotional materials, business building materials, storage cases for the tools, etc.

Not included in this calculation is the travel to and from regional seminars, meetings with upline, social gatherings, display table costs, etc. I would say taking everything into account, the monthly cost would easily be $600 - $700 and up.

10. What was the best moment about building your business?
The people in my downline. We had many laughs and good road trips together. Meeting & interacting with their families. Sharing in their personal life dilemmas. Retaining their valued friendship.

11. What was the worst?

Discovering there were more lies than truths. Discovering that instead of true leadership in the upline, there was deception, manipulation, derision, and taking advantage of good people. My sponsors were good people and remained outside of that.

12. Did you build this as a single?


Stay tuned for the continuation of Chris's story in the next segment, where we delve into the effect of the media on Amway/Quixtar, and how IBO's dealt with or were told to deal with it.

Wednesday, January 30, 2008

Twenty some odd questions

I have been conversing with a former IBO who from this point on will be referred to as "Chris". Chris was more than happy to share some information about the business with me, and has graciously agreed to answer a few of the many questions I have wanted to ask a current or ex IBO for some time. These questions were too numerous for one post, so the interview will be conducted over several posts.

I certainly hope you enjoy reading Chris's responses as much as I have.

I have made a few changes in order to protect Chris's anonymity, as Chris continues to associate with people that were and are still involved in the Amway business, and doesn't wish to jeopardize those relationships.

Chris was an IBO for 10 years, and achieved the level of 4000, much like Joecool. Funnily enough, Chris and Joecool have both achieved higher levels than Tex has. But I digress...

Chris was formerly employed in a professional setting and was responsible for over 50 employees, as well as managed a multi million dollar budget every year. Chris has traveled the world, and is no stranger to dealing with people.

Chris decided it was time for a change, and was open to options when approached about the business. It should be noted that Chris had become dissatisfied with some of the bureaucracies which surrounded Chris's employment. The job seemed to be continuing along with what was perceived to be the wrong path, in Chris's view.

Needless to say, Chris was open to options, and was looking for a change.

1. How were you contacted, and did you know your sponsor prior?

This was during a vulnerable time in my life. I was laid off in 1995 after I refused an offered upper level management position and was searching for an ideal job/small business. I’d had it with deceptive people, government and a disastrous money focused industry. That summer I voraciously read success-based, positive, human behavior, personal development books/articles.

I was actually contacted twice. The first time was by a paramedic based at a local hospital. I didn’t understand what he was saying and was not interested.

The second time was a couple of months later. I was contacted by telephone by a professional couple I knew well & respected. She had been a subordinate of mine at work. They asked if I would be home later that evening because they’d love to come for coffee.

They arrived dressed in business attire which surprised me. We sat at the kitchen table and after the usual small talk and some talk about work, the husband of the couple started asking some questions that led to “drawing the circles”. They didn’t tell me it was Amway until the end of his presentation. It meant nothing to me other than I’d seen some Amway catalogues at work that some of my fellow workers had left on the table in the cafeteria.

I did not have a negative association with Amway. However, 2 weeks before this couple came, I had written on a sheet of paper my future short, intermediate, and long term goals. I had identified that I wanted to work from home in a small business. I did not want to take out a bank loan, I did not want any employees/I did not want to be a boss, I wanted to hang around honest people who had integrity, a good sense of humor and I wanted to help people.

Well, after I saw “The Plan”, it pretty much had all of that. I didn’t think it cost very much to register and decided “okay let’s give this a shot”. I would have signed up that night but they left some tapes & material to read & said they’d call back in a couple of days. The husband of the couple came 2 days later and I had some questions for him. I had asked if I could do this at my own pace & he assured me this was my business & I could do as I wanted with it. There was an “open” meeting the next night & I was encouraged to go “to get a bigger picture.” I went. The meeting was led by a funny little guy from (Name of Town removed) who made a complete mess of the plan but said he was very successful and I thought, “Good grief, if he can be successful, this should be a piece of cake!”

2. How long were you in?

1995 – 2005. Active from 1995 to 2004. I simply didn’t renew at the end of 2004.

3. What level did you attain?

4000 PV

4. What was (were) your biggest hurdle(s) as you tried to build your business?

Keeping people in. Building depth. I could not make the 6-4-2 or even 9-4-2 work. Most of the time I was wide but not deep. At about the 5th year, I realized I was just spinning my wheels. I would not lie to people & I would not pressure them.

Staying plugged in to the system. Attending all the meetings, rallies/seminars/major functions (including FED that was a 36 hour bus ride away)/upline meetings/social gatherings (summer picnics & Christmas product clinics that ended up as an opportunity for the upline emerald to talk to not with us). Finding enough money to pay for all of this and make my 100 PV per month that later went to 300 PV per month to qualify for the “300 Club”. Finding enough money to pay for my regular bills & maintain my house. Dealing with a maxed out credit card. Adjusting to missing family gatherings, friends’ milestone celebrations. No free time whatsoever to just “be” once in a while. And most importantly, coming to grips with not being profitable. There was simply way too much work for next to nothing in return.

5. What was said by your leaders about the internet?

Avoid it. “Garbage in, garbage out.” It was mentioned there was a lot of garbage & lies on the internet about the business. We were told not to waste our time on the internet other than going to the Quixtar and (Name of Organization removed) sites. Instead, we should listen to a tape or read from one of the recommended books.

Next Post.....Some more Q&A with Chris

Stay Tuned........

Saturday, January 26, 2008

A Gift For Tex


Click Here

On The Road With Dave has created something for you.

I would suggest that you thank him for it, whether or not you want to keep it active.

It's an extremely admirable gesture from someone who expects nothing in return.

You're even at the top of my links. See ------------->

That is precisely why even the critics like Dave. Because he's a righteous dude.

Friday, January 25, 2008

Taking Sage Advice

UPDATE: The photo doesn't want to upload, I think there's a problem with Blogger. It was a photo I took of the following titles:

"The Dark Side of the Pyramid"
"Behind The Smoke and Mirrors"
"Amway: The Cult of Free Enterprize"

The Amway Motivational business owners are always stressing the importance of reading, so I've acquired the above noted books, since the "leaders" think it such a valuable use of time. More books similar to those are on the way.

Before you read on, in order to cover my ass, let me say explicitly that I am not at all inferring that Amway is a cult. I am saying that someone who was involved with a cult was also later involved with Amway, and wrote a book about both.

"The Dark Side of the Pyramid" also includes as a bonus the Phil Kerns story, "Fake It Till You Make It", which I understand is quite difficult to find in print now. For those that don't know, Phil Kerns was involved with the People's Temple, and his mother and sister dies while members of the "cult".

Bottom line, if anyone knows cults, it would be Mr. Kerns.

The link I have provided is courtesy of Scott Larsen's site.

I have no idea where he came across the text that he offers up on his site.

I've also found another interesting link about the "Greatest Opportunity in the world" according to some.

I hadn't seen this before today.

Rocket's goin' readin'.

Happy weekend!

PS, looks like I was off base about my Friday Afternoon Announcement Theory.....meh.....

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

The Friday Afternoon Announcement

This UK business is sure taking a long time to be decided upon.

I can't help but think that the big announcement is coming on a Friday afternoon, at which time people will be gone home for the weekend and unable to comment.

Seems to happen a lot these days.

Even the little PR lackey is getting impatient.

Wonder what the hold up is.

I'd like to see Amway have to drop their prices everywhere to be competitive, and make their IBO's accountable in an open and transparent manner. No more boy's club shystering, just a good opportunity for everyone. Motivation income will not exceed Amway incomes.


What would you like to see happen and why?

Tuesday, January 22, 2008

The Trouble With Tex

After an extremely patient web host had put up with far more than most would have, Tex has been banned again from yet another blog.

Tex is an unsuccessful IBO who is trying to get the message out about the tools deception. He has achieved 1500 PV after well over a dozen years in the biz. Not really successful by anybody's standards.

Some of you may have heard of him, or just gotten bored with him. Porkchopjim slaughtered him on a number of debates at the old Quixtar the Dream or The Scheme? blog simply because Tex would not listen to reason.

Tex's MO (that's modus operandi for the uncool amongst us) was basically to take the discussion thread to the lying cowardly kingpins topic, of which everyone who has any clue about Amway/Quixtar is fully aware of. Then preach from his virtual soapbox about how it needs to stop.

He also got banned from Quixtar Blog and the Quixtar Blog forum. He was made to look like a complete imbecile by just being himself on QBlog radio. Have a listen, it's really quite revealing.

The bitter (And humorous) irony of all this is that Tex's "mission" is to get the word out about the tools profits to the "Lying Cowardly Kingpins" (which he doesn't specifically identify). Since he gets banned, he doesn't get his message (which everyone already knows) out.

Tex doesn't seem to understand that anyone can find the answers to questions they have by doing a simple internet search. Tex doesn't seem to WANT to grasp the fact that his mission is not that vital, simply because anyone researching the Amway opportunity will find out about his message with even a modicum of effort.

It looks like this information that Tex has taken as his own to share was available as far back as 1995. It's almost a given that it wasn't necessarily available to everyone, given the internet's relative newness. Not so today. Everyone in North America can, if they want to, get online with few exceptions.

Why am I writing about Tex? I dunno. I just think it's completely idiotic when he says that what he's trying to do is get the word out, but he does it in such a way that does not allow him to get the word out. He refuses to start a blog because wants immediate attention to his problem and is concerned that a low search engine ranking would be tough to overcome.

Again, if his message is as important as he THINKS it is, then the search engine ranking is irrelevant. The fact that it's such a critical message would immediately increase the traffic because his message is so important. I don't even think I have such a vital role, and I have a blog.

Mind you, if nobody else thinks his message is that critical, then he really isn't a savior to the business, which maybe Tex just isn't prepared to admit to himself yet. Anybody else taste the delicious irony of the situation?

Does anybody else think this guy is a few fries short of a Happy Meal?

Don't fight your medication Tex. Just learn to know your role.

There's nothing more annoying than a fool with a cause.

Saturday, January 19, 2008

Facebook For Heaven Sake

I was thinking tonight as I came across a few Facebook pages.

When I was in True North, (Anyone have a password?) we had Voice-Tel, Book of the month, Tape of the week, Extra tape of the week (For those that are serious, of course) as well as monthly rallies and quarterly major functions.

With the advent of the internet, it's pretty obvious that the Quixtar/Amway leadership refuses to make motivation accommodating for everyone in their group.

Let's face it, it does not cost that much to have a website, or distribute audio files. It takes almost nothing to share information anymore, yet people are still told to buy all this crap if they are serious.

You don't need stuff like voice messaging to keep your people informed, you don't need a book of the month distributed by a "leader", and you certainly don't need to be listening to a few hours of (amateur and self serving) motivation as well.

This is absolute lunacy that people are still subscribing to the things that stuff money in the pockets of their leaders. Based on what need? The need to communicate? You can do it for nothing using everyday applications which are available to everyone!

The social networking sites are relatively private if you like, and even more efficient than having a monthly voice messaging system, hard copy CD's for everyone, as well as books. Yep, you'd have cross lining what?

I just realized tonight how completely insane the whole thing is.


Wednesday, January 16, 2008

Which Is Worse?

Admitting that you have explored sex (oh my God! SEX!) on the internet


Not being forthcoming about a level you've achieved in a business?

(That really fits in well with the (Vision & Values)

Just curious.

Maybe the piece of shit responsible would care to own up to it?

(UPDATE: I was referring to the piece of shit responsible for hassling Joecool, not Jody Victor. My wording was not clear.)

Thought not.

I agree with Dave...

It's nice to see someone from "The Dark Side" establish what is and what is not acceptable. You're OK Beth.

Update soon. Rocket's got some new books to read!

Saturday, January 12, 2008

Next Stop is..............?

The success of their business.

I suppose it depends how you define success?

Is it very, very few making money while the overwhelming majority of people involved lose a lot of money with other slight of hand tricks and word games? Is that success?

Or is it the corporation making huge money from ridiculous and greedy markups and allowing the tools deception to continue unabated, is that success?

Amway knows they need to start being honest, and there was a couple of months last year when I thought it may happen.

Alas, nothing coming out of there now of any value. The fact that they may be shut down in the UK SHOULD be a big wake up call.

I'll tell you what pisses me off about the whole UK thing.

1. The drastic price slash. If I was an IBO, I'd say, "You gotta be shitting me! All those years you could've dropped the prices, and you greedy bastards just sent us out there trying to move YOUR PRODUCTS, justifying the prices and getting our asses handed to us when people would actually check the prices when offered the opportunity. Now the government steps in and you just drop them like it was no big deal."

2. Corporate spin. Over and over again, they never step up and say, "We've screwed up. We tried to get away with it as long as we could, but we got caught. We would still be doing it if the government didn't step in. Yep, some may say it wasn't a great thing we were doing ethically, but we were making money doing it, and that's what a business does."

Mind you, if they said that, many IBO's may quit because they would then have an idea what a business is supposed to do. Make money.

The whole thing is just a complete train wreck, and it just goes to show how empires fall. You can only fool all the people for a very small amount of time. After that, it's all damage control.

Personally, the lack of meaningful posts HERE, HERE, and HERE makes me wonder if the corporation is starting to regret this whole transparency idea. Seems to me that they don't want to be open about what they have planned. Obviously, they don't owe any of their detractors an explanation for anything, however, even the stuff that gets to the IBO's is no big whoop. Certainly not any huge announcements indicating the direction of the company.

Are they going to hoard up and try to save what they've got going?

Are they going to have drastic price slashes in North America?

Are they going to address the motivational tools issue in a direct and open manner?

Are they going to concede anything at all in the face of overwhelming testimonial evidence that is garnered daily on the internet?

Are they ever going to say that they have been agreeably complicit to a symbiotic relationship that by and large, was detrimental to all but a few?

Will they ever punish the higher ups in an open and transparent manner, as a deterrent to others who would continue doing what has been going on?

I remember a post I did way back when I was first starting blogging.

Justice. Funny how I've yet to see that word on any corporate blog.

What do you think is happening? Where do you think this is going?

Friday, January 04, 2008

Amway's Position on Spinsider

Amway wouldn't approve a comment I put on their blog. The way that Spinsider's comment was put on directly after mine made me think that Spinsider him/her self had been moderating comments.

I cannot prove it of course, it's just a thought I had at the time.

The following is an exchange I had with Amway's Kate Pearsall. Interestingly enough, they were happy to give me the straight poop when asked.

Let the record state that Amway/Quixtar denies that Spinsider is a corporate plant. They deny even knowing his name, unlike Tex, who, according to Tex, has been pivotal in Amway/Quixtar board meetings.

You can start at the bottom of the post and work your way up to keep the emails in order.


IBOFightBack is NOT a corporate plant, we don't pay him (in fact, we don't even know his real name) and we definitely don't control what he says. If you look through past comments and posts on his own blog, you'll see that IBOFightBack has often been critical of actions taken by the company and clearly states that opinion.

Please do share this response with others. Hopefully it will help clear up this rumor.

Kate Pearsall
Opportunity Zone

Rocket Rocket

12/09/2007 05:01 PM


re: Not Wal-Mart and Never Want to Be

Hi Kate

Thanks for the heads up. I waited a while to respond, so that you wouldn't think it emotional.

I do believe IBOFB is a corporate plant. I would like to know whether or not that is an accurate belief? Right now I feel that my comment wasn't published because it may have hit a little close to home. Some would feel that he/she implying that I am egocentric was uncivil.

Your response will be shared with others.



P.S. For people who add nothing to the discussion, I note that Tex seems to have free reign on your corporate blogs, and your interpretation of civil is fairly subjective. I guess I had given you folks too much credit.

Hi Rocket,

We're not going to publish your comment (below) as it doesn't add to the conversation and is uncivil, thus violating our comments policy.

Best Regards,

Kate Pearsall

Opportunity Zone Editor


You know what's egocentric?

IBOFB denying to be a corporate shill.

Thursday, January 03, 2008

Question for Amway

I was perusing an old Sydney Schwartz link, and came across this page.

At the bottom of this page is the following statement:

Amway always has and continues to welcome open, honest discussion of any questions or concerns Mr. Schwartz or anyone else has about Amway or the Amway opportunity."

OK Amway. Nobody else (IBO's or employees at Alticor) seems to want to address it, and in any of your websites I get no response. My open, honest question or concern is as follows:

Why are the prices of your products so ridiculously high?

P.S. There sure isn't much in the way of answers to any hard questions put to you by IBO's on this site.

Just an observation.

Wednesday, January 02, 2008

Why Nobody Trusts Amway

Look no further than this.

"Amway went out of business, Sold their products to a company called Quixtar. Now Quixtar is changing their name to Amway to benefit from the recognized name."

Unfortunately, many people wouldn't know any better.