Friday, January 04, 2008

Amway's Position on Spinsider

Amway wouldn't approve a comment I put on their blog. The way that Spinsider's comment was put on directly after mine made me think that Spinsider him/her self had been moderating comments.

I cannot prove it of course, it's just a thought I had at the time.

The following is an exchange I had with Amway's Kate Pearsall. Interestingly enough, they were happy to give me the straight poop when asked.

Let the record state that Amway/Quixtar denies that Spinsider is a corporate plant. They deny even knowing his name, unlike Tex, who, according to Tex, has been pivotal in Amway/Quixtar board meetings.

You can start at the bottom of the post and work your way up to keep the emails in order.

Rocket,

IBOFightBack is NOT a corporate plant, we don't pay him (in fact, we don't even know his real name) and we definitely don't control what he says. If you look through past comments and posts on his own blog, you'll see that IBOFightBack has often been critical of actions taken by the company and clearly states that opinion.

Please do share this response with others. Hopefully it will help clear up this rumor.


Thanks,
Kate Pearsall
Editor
Opportunity Zone


Rocket Rocket

12/09/2007 05:01 PM

To
help@opportunityzone.com
cc

Subject
re: Not Wal-Mart and Never Want to Be




Hi Kate

Thanks for the heads up. I waited a while to respond, so that you wouldn't think it emotional.

I do believe IBOFB is a corporate plant. I would like to know whether or not that is an accurate belief? Right now I feel that my comment wasn't published because it may have hit a little close to home. Some would feel that he/she implying that I am egocentric was uncivil.

Your response will be shared with others.

Thanks!

Rocket

P.S. For people who add nothing to the discussion, I note that Tex seems to have free reign on your corporate blogs, and your interpretation of civil is fairly subjective. I guess I had given you folks too much credit.

help@opportunityzone.com
wrote:


Hi Rocket,


We're not going to publish your comment (below) as it doesn't add to the conversation and is uncivil, thus violating our comments policy.


Best Regards,

Kate Pearsall

Opportunity Zone Editor


*****


You know what's egocentric?

IBOFB denying to be a corporate shill.

24 Comments:

Blogger David Robison said...

They must have deleted the entire "egocentric" exchange between you and Insider....unless I missed it somehow...the entry's comments seem to be more between you and a "Bridgett" now.

Dave

05 January, 2008 11:14  
Anonymous Joecool said...

spinsider is a PR hack for amway, quixtar and betwork 21. Note I did not say "paid", but when he is posting on what seems like 100's of blogs, running his own, and constructing Amwaywiki, the guys is definitely a PR hack.

But it's also been shown that spinsider is a liar and apparently will lie to puch his agenda.

05 January, 2008 15:31  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Food for thought. Say insider's name was Fred Smith. He could just spin and say insider/ibofightback isn't a paid hack for the corporation, full well knowing that he as Fred Smith is.

Pedantic? Yes, but I wouldn't put it past spinsider to pull something like that.

05 January, 2008 17:43  
Blogger David Robison said...

Howdy Rocket,

In response to your comment at my blog....


http://www.ontheroadwithdave.com/2008/01/changing-directions.html

05 January, 2008 20:34  
Anonymous joecool said...

Anyone wonder how spinsider has access to the Amway global logos and effective dates of changes before the corporation announced it?

05 January, 2008 23:16  
Blogger rocket said...

I smell what you're cooking Joecool.

I'll be honest and say that personally, my opinion is Amway is a business that is very good at looking out for it's own best interests, in spite of how that may effect one or two dozen people along the way.

I will say that I have no doubt that Amway doesn't pay him, and they don't know his name, and they don't control what he says.

Does that mean nobody pays him? No

Does that mean nobody knows his name? No

Does that mean nobody controls what he says? Not necessarily.

Readers are free to think whatever they like.

I know what I think.

05 January, 2008 23:25  
Anonymous Joecool said...

So when they say Amway doesn't pay him or know his name, does that mean Alticor doesn't pay him or know his name? Hmmmm......

You know the semantics thing right?

06 January, 2008 20:36  
Anonymous rara said...

Insider doesn't work for Amway. If he works for anyone, it's N21. He criticizes the corp at times but will defend N21 to the death. If you read his posts carefully, you'll notice that he's concerned about Amway's reputation and the business opportunity only inasmuch as they affect N21. It's all about N21 for him. Notice how he uses the pronoun "we" when he talks about what N21 does, but he doesn't seem to have that kind of affection or sense of identity or belonging with Amway.

I'm starting to suspect that he's not really working for anyone but he's just a self-important IBO that's obsessed with arguing about and defending the biz.

This is just my opinion based on my observations.

07 January, 2008 22:03  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

Right on rara. I think spinsider is not paid by anyone...Amway, Alticore nor N21. I can't believe that they would spend money on someone that stupid to defend them online.

08 January, 2008 14:15  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Check out this: http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,91/func,view/catid,37/id,9881/lang,en/#9881

Joecool debating spinsider lies.

He actually defends a blatant lie by saying he added a smiley :) to his post.

Well, he added the smiley after I had copied his statement. My orignal copy of his statement had no smiley in it.

He's getting weak these days.

08 January, 2008 14:27  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

Weak indeed....you know what they say....spin a web of lies and deceit and even the most maticulous person will get caught.
He has nothing left to defend....lately his only tactic has been to try and discredit the poster not the information posted.

08 January, 2008 17:03  
Anonymous Mike said...

Insider has a right to speak, a right to express himself.

If he thinks Amway is the way to go, then so be it. If he presents the truth, then so be it.

The only thing Insider has to offer is proof, the reality of the Amway business.

If he wants to stand on the top of the world and shout "Amway" then let him.

If he builds a network that nets him a profit, then let him shout it out loud..

If those that are in his downline, proclaim that he is the one that helped them achieve financial freedom (whatever that means) then let them.

If he make false claims, "spins" the truth, then let him live with that.

If a thousand people decide to follow him, let them, he alone has to deal with the responiblity.

Insider knows where he is in the business, if it is 100pv or 100,000pv he knows where he is..and what he has done to get there.

So I guess I am saying this, let the guy do his thing, let him do what he has to do..

Corporate hack or a "fired up" distributor, either way, let him do what he feels he needs to do.

11 January, 2008 16:53  
Blogger rocket said...

I agree Mike.

But myself and many others will do the exact same thing with our differing viewpoints.

Then people can decide what is and what is not the truth.

For over over a quarter of a century Amway and it's "leaders" have been doing all the talking about what Amway is, what the people involved are all about, and what the benefits are when you are in Amway.

They've talked long enough without interruption, now another perspective is being offered up, which appears to have been hidden for quite some time.

If Amway is half the company they purport to be, then it's not really a problem, is it?

11 January, 2008 17:02  
Anonymous Mike said...

Rocket states "If Amway is half the company they purport to be, then it's not really a problem, is it?"

There is the entire issue.

11 January, 2008 22:27  
Anonymous Mike said...

I think there can always be spin put on any discussion.

Regardless if Insider/IBOFB or any other IBO spins or not, the bottom line is the sucess of their business.

That is all that matters. As far as Insider/IBOFB being a corprate PR guy, well consider he is a IBO therefore a corprate PR guy. He may or may not be paid for his blog, but he may have access to the lastest news..so be it.

If Amway wants to be honest or not, and the same applies to IBOFB. That is something they know as the truth.

Amway and IBOFB are like a magician, they have to sell the effect or it is seen for what it really is.

12 January, 2008 08:49  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

You are right Mike....IBOFB/Insider has a right to speak his opinions and defend Q*/Amway all he wants. What I have a problem with, personally, is how he does this. Ignoring certain facts, not answering questions, questioning critics creditability and whether or not that critic can be making ANY comment on the issue, lying, spining and personally attacking anyone who opposes him.

I have been in discusions in the past with people, whether it be work, politics, religion, or what have you; thngs have gotten heated to say the least, but at the end of it all there was never any of Insiders tactics used and we were able to all go and get a beer afterwards and share some jokes. Why should this issue be any different? Are we not all adults? I don't beleive that being an IBO makes them a bad person, yet according to may supporters and the tactics used by Insider, being a critic DOES make us bad people. I take issue with this and as I have said before...I think Insider is a disgrace to IBO's, men, and humanity alike.

14 January, 2008 13:40  
Anonymous Mike said...

Anna states "I have been in discusions in the past with people, whether it be work, politics, religion, or what have you; thngs have gotten heated to say the least, but at the end of it all there was never any of Insiders tactics used and we were able to all go and get a beer afterwards and share some jokes. Why should this issue be any different?"

How is it different, it has to do with being face to face. It is easier to sense what a person is feeling, to look in their eyes. To see them as real.

The thing about the Amway debate, is very simple, it either works or it don't. Those that have tried to work it, have found aspects of the business unworkable. They are presenting their experience..those that are in the business, have two choices.

Either work their business or talk about it..if they are taling about it..they are not working their business.

As far as my business is concerned, I could go to anti sites and read them and make comments..or I could not worry about them and do what I can to make my business work..regardless of the naysayers.

One only defends a point of weakness.

I got tired of listening to all the ways to defend Amway so I quit.


Insider and others that defend Amway, on the internet, can do so behind the monitor and their screenname..

I would like to see Bill Britt, or Dexter Yeager call NBC and say.."let me tell you my side of the story.." If they can walk the beaches of the world, buy whatever they want..then why not buy TV time to tell their side of the story..

14 January, 2008 16:44  
Anonymous Joecool said...

I believe bill britt declined comment on Dateline and Quixtar the corporation to my knowledge doesn't make claims about walking on beaches.

Why insider/ibofightback is so shady is because he never debates the merit of the information. He redirects the focal point of the argument to the person making the claims or to something not relevent to the focal point.

He can never admit he's wrong, even when caught in an outright lie.

14 January, 2008 17:03  
Anonymous Mike said...

Joe states "Why insider/ibofightback is so shady is because he never debates the merit of the information. He redirects the focal point of the argument to the person making the claims or to something not relevent to the focal point.

He can never admit he's wrong, even when caught in an outright lie."

The only valid point Insider can make is his profit and lost statement..outside of that he and others are just blowing smoke.

14 January, 2008 20:15  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

Mike says..."How is it different, it has to do with being face to face. It is easier to sense what a person is feeling, to look in their eyes. To see them as real.

The thing about the Amway debate, is very simple, it either works or it don't. Those that have tried to work it, have found aspects of the business unworkable. They are presenting their experience..those that are in the business, have two choices."

Exactly the point...he is not arguing the business he is arguing the person questioning the business. That would make his tactics even more despicable. To go above and beyond and attack the person from behind a computer is absurd. If anything it would be more likely to happen face to face, especially given that there may be some personal knowledge of each other. But if people can debate issues face to face and not resort to Insider tactics then it should be easier to do so online.


Mike says..." Either work their business or talk about it..if they are taling about it..they are not working their business."

We can ALL agree to this point...well said.

15 January, 2008 10:59  
Anonymous Joecool said...

Mike says..." Either work their business or talk about it..if they are taling about it..they are not working their business."

Anna28 said: We can ALL agree to this point...well said.

Joe says: You know what's funny?
insider claims his level is irrelevent to the discussion.

Humorous. When debating the business, he says his level doesn't matter, only the facts he present. When anyone else brings up an issue, their credibility isthe focal point of spinsider's arguments.

It's his strategy, but every sees right through it.

15 January, 2008 11:14  
Anonymous Anna28 said...

JC says..."Joe says: You know what's funny?
insider claims his level is irrelevent to the discussion.

Humorous. When debating the business, he says his level doesn't matter, only the facts he present. When anyone else brings up an issue, their credibility isthe focal point of spinsider's arguments.

It's his strategy, but every sees right through it."


And how is it IBO's would support him? I know there are only a few, but if I were an IBO I would do whatever I could to get him to shut up. He is clearly causing damage. His antics bring more and more attention to these sites, I am sure that is not his intent.

15 January, 2008 12:55  
Anonymous Joecool said...

One member from Qblog had an interesting take on insider. He is actually a network21 supporter.

He will occasionally make comments about the corporation but acts as if network21 walks on water.

There is ample evidence that network21 promotes/pushes tools just like every other AQMO.

15 January, 2008 14:45  
Blogger JMW said...

I just came across this post, and THANK GOD I'm not the only person who has had a run-in with the idiot known as IBOFB. He seriously left me a 5-page long comment about how all of my comments about quixtar were wrong and how I am arrogant for saying everything I said.

If quixtar worked so well, then why does everyone quit? Why are there so many websites and blog posts that bash quixtar. Clearly, that idiot doesn't get it, yet he leaves malicious posts on my blog acting like he's supposed to be the quixtar policeman.

05 November, 2008 20:08  

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