TEAM According to Rocket
The first thing I noticed when conducting the interview with IBO Rebellion is that he was very suspicious about somebody asking questions about TEAM. Given the recent legal issues going on, I suppose I can't really fault him for that. But if you look on my blog, you'll see that I've been writing about Amway/Quixtar for a while now. A reasonable person would tend to assume that I am not allied with Amway.
Once the questions started being responded to (such as they were) I was very disappointed to see that a typical TEAM member knows very, very little about the legal fund, yet is encouraged to donate to it without understanding the parameters of it's use. If you don't have alarm bells going off in your head about that, you should.
I commend IBO Rebellion for candidly answering that uplines make a profit from their downline consuming motivation. No surprise there, however, yet again, that is not a transparent aspect either. Even setting aside the morality of such a set up, as a business person, you SHOULD be able to project what you will make at certain points in your business. If information is withheld, or if basic discovery is impeded, then you should be walking away. It doesn't matter how positive a business is, you need to be able to see the whole picture before you invest one nickel into it.
Just because someone is positive, or speaks positive, it doesn't mean they have your best interests at heart. Think of the carnival guy who encourages you to spend a couple bucks to knock over a few milk bottles to get a big stuffed animal for your girlfriend. He's positive, he makes you feel good, but does he have your best interests at heart? No. He wants you to spend more money. I think that's a pretty fair comparison, based on the information IBO Rebellion gave me.
I don't really understand the difference between a profit schedule and a formula for compensating people who move the motivation. Maybe IBO Rebellion didn't like my terminology? I dunno. My first though was he has no clue, and he wants to make it look like he's answering a question.
I still highly doubt that TEAM has a motivational aspect to it outside of anyone in TEAM. IBO Rebellion obviously felt insulted that I questioned that, yet did not provide any of TEAM's outside customers. Just as well, I suppose, because then he would've had to answer questions about who gets to perform these motivational seminars for these outside agencies, and how they are paid. Obviously, IBO Rebellion would have no clue whatsoever about that. If anyone from TEAM is reading this, please correct me if I'm wrong.
We found out that TEAM is in the leadership business, but the method of payment for moving leadership is not open and available for everyone to see. I don't care if it's character based or regular run of the mill leadership. I know a line when I hear one, and when you aren't able to know at what rate/wage/scale you are going to be paid at, REAL business owners and even the dreaded EMPLOYEES will not accept that. It's ridiculous.
IBO Rebellion even acknowledged that there may be a bit of a legal minefield for not being aligned with a product based company (In spite of the fact that their product IS leadership allegedly). This tells me that even he is aware that what they are doing is subject to scrutiny, which is probably why nobody on TEAM really knows anything.
As far as the formula being protected because it's a trade secret, I call bullshit. Is your wage at your job a trade secret? Is an auto body's shop price a trade secret? That is the biggest load of garbage I have heard in a looong time.
I got a real kick out of the "element of trust" card that IBO Rebellion threw out there when I told him no answers is not good when people have questions. Ultimately, this is his defense to an obvious question of not knowing what you are going to be paid. The real world does not work that way.
I won't even get into the diatribe about leadership in the last email, because it's ridiculous. IBO Rebellion talks about leadership and all that, but doesn't even realize the painfully obvious point that his interview reveals.
People on TEAM are not leaders, they are followers.
Make no mistake about it, and hats off to Woodward. He has succeeded at getting a bunch of people to be loyal to him, and spend money for him to make a whole bunch more than they do. I have no doubt that he is charismatic, and an excellent speaker. I also have no doubt that the solar system is juust big enough for his and Chris Brady's egos. They're just good at hiding it from their own.
The link to Woodward and Brady's book was the final nail in the coffin for my assessment of TEAM. I actually did laugh out loud. My wife wondered what I was laughing at, so I told her that this guy couldn't answer a number different things about his own business, so gave me a book to read. I outlined what he wouldn't answer, and my wife said, "Why would someone say they are a business owner without knowing how their business works"? Then she called IBO Rebellion a bad name insulting his IQ. I love Mrs. Rocket dearly.
I didn't ask about the constant and repetitive quoting of successful people. I also didn't ask about the rather frightening degree of loyalty that TEAM seems to have for their leaders, in spite of likely not making any money. (Trade secret, remember?)
So, I guess you can imagine what I think of TEAM. I must say, I do believe they have gone from the frying pan into the fire. Yes, I know a bunch of other Amway organizations like True North and DCI have jumped ship. You wanna know why they jumped ship? I'll tell you what I think...
I believe that Woodward, Brady, Florence, Crawford and all those other Amway guys want to keep selling motivation, except rather than under the guise of Free Enterprise, it's now under the heading of Leadership. They aren't selling dreams of Amway success, they are selling dreams of Leadership success. Give me a break.
They didn't learn a damn thing about what happened in Amway. They are making the same stupid mistakes, except under a different banner. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm sick of assholes like these guys peddling wares to people that they cannot deliver. Maybe they can though. I just doubt it.
They are just participating in their well oiled sell motivation and control information machine again. I wonder how long until there are anti-TEAM blogs springing up all over the internet?
I have tried to post on Woodward's leadership blog, but they never got posted. I also have been banned from IBO Rebellion's website. I decided to take his advice and put more time into my blog. You can decide whether or not he answered my questions.
" The IBO Rebellion said...
Once the questions started being responded to (such as they were) I was very disappointed to see that a typical TEAM member knows very, very little about the legal fund, yet is encouraged to donate to it without understanding the parameters of it's use. If you don't have alarm bells going off in your head about that, you should.
I commend IBO Rebellion for candidly answering that uplines make a profit from their downline consuming motivation. No surprise there, however, yet again, that is not a transparent aspect either. Even setting aside the morality of such a set up, as a business person, you SHOULD be able to project what you will make at certain points in your business. If information is withheld, or if basic discovery is impeded, then you should be walking away. It doesn't matter how positive a business is, you need to be able to see the whole picture before you invest one nickel into it.
Just because someone is positive, or speaks positive, it doesn't mean they have your best interests at heart. Think of the carnival guy who encourages you to spend a couple bucks to knock over a few milk bottles to get a big stuffed animal for your girlfriend. He's positive, he makes you feel good, but does he have your best interests at heart? No. He wants you to spend more money. I think that's a pretty fair comparison, based on the information IBO Rebellion gave me.
I don't really understand the difference between a profit schedule and a formula for compensating people who move the motivation. Maybe IBO Rebellion didn't like my terminology? I dunno. My first though was he has no clue, and he wants to make it look like he's answering a question.
I still highly doubt that TEAM has a motivational aspect to it outside of anyone in TEAM. IBO Rebellion obviously felt insulted that I questioned that, yet did not provide any of TEAM's outside customers. Just as well, I suppose, because then he would've had to answer questions about who gets to perform these motivational seminars for these outside agencies, and how they are paid. Obviously, IBO Rebellion would have no clue whatsoever about that. If anyone from TEAM is reading this, please correct me if I'm wrong.
We found out that TEAM is in the leadership business, but the method of payment for moving leadership is not open and available for everyone to see. I don't care if it's character based or regular run of the mill leadership. I know a line when I hear one, and when you aren't able to know at what rate/wage/scale you are going to be paid at, REAL business owners and even the dreaded EMPLOYEES will not accept that. It's ridiculous.
IBO Rebellion even acknowledged that there may be a bit of a legal minefield for not being aligned with a product based company (In spite of the fact that their product IS leadership allegedly). This tells me that even he is aware that what they are doing is subject to scrutiny, which is probably why nobody on TEAM really knows anything.
As far as the formula being protected because it's a trade secret, I call bullshit. Is your wage at your job a trade secret? Is an auto body's shop price a trade secret? That is the biggest load of garbage I have heard in a looong time.
I got a real kick out of the "element of trust" card that IBO Rebellion threw out there when I told him no answers is not good when people have questions. Ultimately, this is his defense to an obvious question of not knowing what you are going to be paid. The real world does not work that way.
I won't even get into the diatribe about leadership in the last email, because it's ridiculous. IBO Rebellion talks about leadership and all that, but doesn't even realize the painfully obvious point that his interview reveals.
People on TEAM are not leaders, they are followers.
Make no mistake about it, and hats off to Woodward. He has succeeded at getting a bunch of people to be loyal to him, and spend money for him to make a whole bunch more than they do. I have no doubt that he is charismatic, and an excellent speaker. I also have no doubt that the solar system is juust big enough for his and Chris Brady's egos. They're just good at hiding it from their own.
The link to Woodward and Brady's book was the final nail in the coffin for my assessment of TEAM. I actually did laugh out loud. My wife wondered what I was laughing at, so I told her that this guy couldn't answer a number different things about his own business, so gave me a book to read. I outlined what he wouldn't answer, and my wife said, "Why would someone say they are a business owner without knowing how their business works"? Then she called IBO Rebellion a bad name insulting his IQ. I love Mrs. Rocket dearly.
I didn't ask about the constant and repetitive quoting of successful people. I also didn't ask about the rather frightening degree of loyalty that TEAM seems to have for their leaders, in spite of likely not making any money. (Trade secret, remember?)
So, I guess you can imagine what I think of TEAM. I must say, I do believe they have gone from the frying pan into the fire. Yes, I know a bunch of other Amway organizations like True North and DCI have jumped ship. You wanna know why they jumped ship? I'll tell you what I think...
I believe that Woodward, Brady, Florence, Crawford and all those other Amway guys want to keep selling motivation, except rather than under the guise of Free Enterprise, it's now under the heading of Leadership. They aren't selling dreams of Amway success, they are selling dreams of Leadership success. Give me a break.
They didn't learn a damn thing about what happened in Amway. They are making the same stupid mistakes, except under a different banner. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm sick of assholes like these guys peddling wares to people that they cannot deliver. Maybe they can though. I just doubt it.
They are just participating in their well oiled sell motivation and control information machine again. I wonder how long until there are anti-TEAM blogs springing up all over the internet?
I have tried to post on Woodward's leadership blog, but they never got posted. I also have been banned from IBO Rebellion's website. I decided to take his advice and put more time into my blog. You can decide whether or not he answered my questions.
" The IBO Rebellion said...
Dear Rocket,
I have went above and beyond in answering your questions. You are just a confused person with a pathetic hobby. Like I told you last night when you asked me the question... "What is the difference between leadership and character based leadership?" After explaining this to you, you still didn't get it. You not getting it is painfully obvious to all of us. Because of this you are hereby banned from this site. Good bye Rocket... spend a little more time on your own site... it is looking a bit anemic."
posted by rocket at 6:56 PM
20 Comments:
What I don't understand about the IBO Rebellion author and readership is why they would think you are paid by someone(Amway, maybe?) to ask your questions.
Do they even read your blog??
And why would they assume you and TEX are allies?
And even their answer on that issue made no real sense to me.
I wish I knew the answer Dave. Rebellion banned me, and even though he doesn't have moderation in effect all the time, I will respect his wishes.
I think they assume everyone not on board with TEAM is aligned with Amway.
I have no doubt if Orrin told them to read my blog, they would. However, unless they are told to, they just won't. They're followers, and have simply lost the ability or desire to think for themselves.
Thanks for putting a few words in for me Dave. It's much appreciated.
Typical Amquix motivational system "slash and burn-speak". Like the Clinton's, you discredit the messanger so you don't have to tackle the truth of the message.
Yes, everyone is a loser who does not join them. And you should join them because the world is negative and they are positive. And black is white, and up is down, and water is dry (except for perfect water) and the sun is cold...because to a WINNER - the FACTS don't count.
That's it...period....(insert roar of the crowd here).
JimZ
JimZ, I don't really understand what you are saying there. Are you saying I discredited the messenger rather than the message?
In case you have comprehension issues, I would suggest to you that there was no message!
The questions weren't answered.
Thanks for dropping by.
Jim Z is saying that anyone who doesn't see it the way TEAM sees it is a loser. (He's being sarcastic. He doesn't really believe this).
Jim Z writes some pretty good posts on other blogs/forums.
rocket, do you get out much? :)
I get out lots...Sorry, I'm married.
But I'm flattered.
JimZ and Plain Jane
I just read what I wrote again and it didn't come out right.
Sorry, and I do appreciate your comments.
Good summation, Rocket! If IBO Rebellion is a good example of “character leadership”, I’ll continue to prefer true leadership principles instead. True leaders actually welcome and respond openly to criticism. They embrace transparency. Wanna-be leaders or “character leaders” if that’s what they want to call themselves demonstrate distrust, being afraid of criticism, are insulted by it, react defensively to it, reject it, spin it, “shoot the messenger” (or ban the messenger), avoid it like the plague, etc. Feeds into the “no negative mantra” that really is a recipe for disaster over time. It seems that too many of them have labelled “truth” negative. I notice on OW’s blog, the only comments that are allowed to be posted are those that deify him, oops edify him ad nauseum. I guess “character leaders” must require incessant and constant ego strokes.
LOL, JimZ! Love the satire! I can hear the roar of the crowd followed by the band breaking into the Rhino song played at deafening decibals!
Rocket,
No harm, no foul. I just re-read what I wrote and I absolutely understand why you thought I was directing it toward you.
What I MEANT to say was that the TEAM peeps were the ones who were guilty of trying to discredit you instead of addressing the issues you raised. Starting from that perspective, if you re-read my original post, it will make a lot more sense.
And thanks to plain jane and mightypeace for the compliments.
When I was involved in BWW (for more than 15 years - ouch) I never realized how powerful the "kill the messenger" reaction was. It innoculates your brain, cutting off any digestion of the facts you are being confronted with.
Since you, the messenger, are the loser, I can only descend into loser-hood by spending any mental energy digesting what you are saying.
My epiphany was "Merchants of Deception". I read in in March 2005 and it LITERALLY sent a chill down my spine. I am not using hyperbole. I LITERALLY had a physcial reaction to it. It distilled the essence of all the reservations I had for many many years, but could never quite put my finger on.
From there my journey into the light began. It took years. Saldy, many other people will continue to blame themselves as I did for so long. It is shame.
JimZ
So the team is not currently involved in anything, they will be moving to Mona Vie, but continue to sell motivational stuff.
Is that correct - in general?
Dear Anonymous,
You can bet your bottom dollar they will be selling their motivational stuff. MonAvie is another host for the parasites to feed off of.
I have had some discussions on the Alticor blog (back when the blog admin actually bothered to update it) with some TEAM people who insist the motivational business is an honest to goodness real business. But they can never answer my simple question - if the motivational business is a legitimate business then why do they need MonAvie, or anyone else for that matter. Why can't they just sell their motivational tools AS their business.
Their response? (insert sound of crickets here).
JimZ
If Team is in the motivational business, then they could continue to sell tapes and seminars to Quixtar IBOs and/or other people as does Anthony Robbins, etal.
The Team "memebers" don't necessarily have to join another MLM if I'm understanding this correctly.
You are correct joecool. You must be the only one who has been paying attention.
But the Team members are joining Mona Vie right?
Is Team going to continue to produce training materials for MLM ingeneral or will they morph and specialize in training only for Mona Vie?
TEAM "leadership" will follow the path of least resistance. They will continue to use anything they have created that works for MonAvie, and they will recycle it with MonAvie in it to continue their tool sales cycle.
They will feed off of the people who join MonAvie and, at some point, perhaps the MonAvie leaders will realize that TEAM is hijacking their business to sell their tools. Then TEAM will quit and sue MonAvie.
JimZ
Rocket...
And AmQuix claims they aren't a cult. I've got two words for them: Orrin Woodward. One cult leader who can draw his faithful folk into any non sensible pursuit he desires.
Aren't the other motivational organizations like the Ron Puryear bunch dragging their IBOs around with rings in their noses still?
AmQuix claims they do not operate a cult because there is no charismatic leader. That the Biz is made up of many leaders. These folk collectively make up the "Charismatic Leader". They are the Dexter Yagers, Bill Britts, Ron Puryears of the cult Biz.
The Woodward experience points out the operations of Quixtar/Amway. Cult inspired people do not need logical reasons for blindly following along. They were blindly following Woodward when they were in Quixtar. Nothing much has changed outside of Quixtar.
Dreaming fools remaining loyal to tool kingpin motivational organizations, whether in or out of Amway, make themselves duped marks to be fleeced. Quixtar is mad that the sheep are going to be fleeced in someone else's barn.
Yeah I know what a crime, I just made more money being in Mona Vie for 1 week, already have 10x the custmers than I ever did with 2yrs of Quixsand. So say all you want about Woodward or Mona Vie. I follow the results.
Good luck to you anonymous. I am a bit skeptical that selling $45 bottles of juice is a long term sustainable business.
I honestly think you could make more money selling motivation alone.
Anonymous...
Good luck to you. I hope you are and become as successful in MonaVie as you claim. Maybe more Quix-czar dupes will jump ship and join you and Orrin in heaven.
Oh, as an after thought, I wish all the wonderful people who desire to use anonymous as a handle, your views become jumbled together with other anonymous handle users. This sort of makes you a non-person. Why not just pick a handle like "rocket"? Wouldn't that help differentiate you from the pack?
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