More questions than answers
Before you read this, I'm not done talking about this topic.
Something has been bugging me for the past week or so. I can't quite put my finger on something, and I'm hoping for a little bit of feedback here, from ABO's and critics alike.
There's a long list of once heralded "leaders" that are no longer involved in Amway. They include Emerald Eric Scheibler, Diamonds and above consisting of Fred Harteis, Orrin Woodward, Mark Crawford, Bo Short, Brig Hart and on and on and on. Feel free to name more in the comment section, I'm not going to waste a bunch of time looking up all the "failed" IBO's.
I used the word "failed" because that is what many IBO's have labeled people who do not continue in the Amway business for whatever reason. Ironically, some of the leaders who tught this mindset are now out of the business.
What I'm trying to wrap my brain around is this whole scenario unfolding. Some are staying, some are going, but unless it's like the TEAM fiasco, it's not known why these folks quit. This leads me to believe that perhaps the "leaders" fear the corporation and don't want to get into a big legal hassle with them.
Conversely, maybe they are kicked out, and out of professional courtesy, the corporation keeps a lid on why they are gone.
Either way, it's still smells bad. Look, if I was a current IBO trying to build a business, I'd first of all want to be involved with a company who is functioning like a normal distribution company. Secondly, when abuses happen and the company deals with it, I'd like to be able to point to the people who were kicked out to demonstrate the corporation's loyalty to the IBO's. All this secrecy and back door shenanigans does not really instill confidence in the Amway Corporation.
Along that same vein, all the extraordinary efforts by the corporation to have things resolved in arbitration thus far is also a very telling sign. Arbitration was created to avoid court and have the two parties compromise in order to achieve a resolution. Part of the process arbitration, as far as I'm concerned, is that both parties have to be willing to compromise. Not the case in many of instances involving Amway, since they seem very motivated to have mandatory arbitration. Mandatory arbitration to me is a complete oxymoron. Furthermore, the main goal of arbitration in Amway's case appears to be silence. I don't know of one arbitration case Amway has been involved with that the resolution is public. Everyone already knows what a joke the whole process is with Amway selecting their own arbitrators and bullshit like that, but I'm not trying to make a point about that. It's a dog's breakfast of a deal, and anyone with half a brain knows it.
So where am I going with this? I just don't understand a few things. Firstly, why the non advertisement of people who were not willing to follow the rules that leave? This is about cleaning up the huge mess that took decades to build, yet they don't say anything when they are getting rid of the problems? Shouldn't IBO's see the results of this action, if not for a deterrent effect, at least to show that you will do what's right?
Secondly, how can IBO's continue to trust a corporation that is obviously completely out of touch with the grassroots IBO? Look at the prices, look at the spin doctoring, look at the complete and utter lack of transparency. They made a big deal about how they were going to be transparent, yet they aren't. They seem to say they are going to do a lot of things that they don't follow through on. Why are they still trusted?
Third, why can't the circumstances of everything be known for the benefit of IBO's? It's so secret all the time, and I just think you are a complete fool to remain associated to a company that goes above and beyond to ensure secrecy. Granted, it's not professional to air your dirty laundry, BUT everyone already knew about it the problems, in spite of Amway's (pathetic and amateur) efforts. So why would you not want people to know HOW the problem was dealt with to put everyone's mind at ease?
Unless how it was dealt with would not put everyone's mind at ease.
Food for thought.
Speaking of fixing things, I had to fix our toilet over the weekend. Whoever came up with the name ballcock assembly must be laughing every time someone has to ask for one at the hardware store.
Something has been bugging me for the past week or so. I can't quite put my finger on something, and I'm hoping for a little bit of feedback here, from ABO's and critics alike.
There's a long list of once heralded "leaders" that are no longer involved in Amway. They include Emerald Eric Scheibler, Diamonds and above consisting of Fred Harteis, Orrin Woodward, Mark Crawford, Bo Short, Brig Hart and on and on and on. Feel free to name more in the comment section, I'm not going to waste a bunch of time looking up all the "failed" IBO's.
I used the word "failed" because that is what many IBO's have labeled people who do not continue in the Amway business for whatever reason. Ironically, some of the leaders who tught this mindset are now out of the business.
What I'm trying to wrap my brain around is this whole scenario unfolding. Some are staying, some are going, but unless it's like the TEAM fiasco, it's not known why these folks quit. This leads me to believe that perhaps the "leaders" fear the corporation and don't want to get into a big legal hassle with them.
Conversely, maybe they are kicked out, and out of professional courtesy, the corporation keeps a lid on why they are gone.
Either way, it's still smells bad. Look, if I was a current IBO trying to build a business, I'd first of all want to be involved with a company who is functioning like a normal distribution company. Secondly, when abuses happen and the company deals with it, I'd like to be able to point to the people who were kicked out to demonstrate the corporation's loyalty to the IBO's. All this secrecy and back door shenanigans does not really instill confidence in the Amway Corporation.
Along that same vein, all the extraordinary efforts by the corporation to have things resolved in arbitration thus far is also a very telling sign. Arbitration was created to avoid court and have the two parties compromise in order to achieve a resolution. Part of the process arbitration, as far as I'm concerned, is that both parties have to be willing to compromise. Not the case in many of instances involving Amway, since they seem very motivated to have mandatory arbitration. Mandatory arbitration to me is a complete oxymoron. Furthermore, the main goal of arbitration in Amway's case appears to be silence. I don't know of one arbitration case Amway has been involved with that the resolution is public. Everyone already knows what a joke the whole process is with Amway selecting their own arbitrators and bullshit like that, but I'm not trying to make a point about that. It's a dog's breakfast of a deal, and anyone with half a brain knows it.
So where am I going with this? I just don't understand a few things. Firstly, why the non advertisement of people who were not willing to follow the rules that leave? This is about cleaning up the huge mess that took decades to build, yet they don't say anything when they are getting rid of the problems? Shouldn't IBO's see the results of this action, if not for a deterrent effect, at least to show that you will do what's right?
Secondly, how can IBO's continue to trust a corporation that is obviously completely out of touch with the grassroots IBO? Look at the prices, look at the spin doctoring, look at the complete and utter lack of transparency. They made a big deal about how they were going to be transparent, yet they aren't. They seem to say they are going to do a lot of things that they don't follow through on. Why are they still trusted?
Third, why can't the circumstances of everything be known for the benefit of IBO's? It's so secret all the time, and I just think you are a complete fool to remain associated to a company that goes above and beyond to ensure secrecy. Granted, it's not professional to air your dirty laundry, BUT everyone already knew about it the problems, in spite of Amway's (pathetic and amateur) efforts. So why would you not want people to know HOW the problem was dealt with to put everyone's mind at ease?
Unless how it was dealt with would not put everyone's mind at ease.
Food for thought.
Speaking of fixing things, I had to fix our toilet over the weekend. Whoever came up with the name ballcock assembly must be laughing every time someone has to ask for one at the hardware store.
posted by rocket at 2:33 PM
5 Comments:
Nice to see you back & feeling better. Good thought-provoking post. I think a key thing here is this sentence, “Granted, it's not professional to air your dirty laundry.” When that belief prevails, secrecy is almost assured. Another belief that interferes with conflict resolution in Q*/A/AQMOs is “no negative downline.” People/organizations will take these to the nth degree. It’s like labeling truth a negative. What happens is not unlike “sweeping the messes under the rug.” Over time, the more mess swept under the rug, the higher the rug rises until such time the mess is so obvious it cannot be mistaken. That’s when spins usually start and the messes are called anything but what they really are. It becomes over complicated and obfuscated. That’s how “politically correct” was born. Political correctness calls a shovel a digging apparatus (in case someone might be offended). A digging apparatus can be anything, even a tablespoon. It enables spins. If they just learned the simple concept of “tell the truth” no matter what, all would be better off. The “truth” can’t ever be dirty laundry or a negative, but secrets are. The more open a person or organization is, the more respect they earn. The more closed one/it is, the less respect they earn. Secrecy leads to mistrust. With mistrust there can be no respect. That leads to bad reputation. There really is no need for secrets. They don’t get it. The information they’re hiding eventually surfaces and then they just look silly. With concealing & secrets comes lying, denial, “shooting the messenger” and all those kinds of fun things. I think it’s all of this that contributes to the extremely high rate of IBO non-renewals. Current IBOs tend to spin that it’s due to laziness on the part of the IBO, label it “loser mentality”, etc. That way, the upline is off the hook. With the belief that it was somehow the IBOs fault who quit, there’s nothing for the upline to change. “It’s nothing I/we did; they weren’t teachable. Some will, some won’t, NEXT!!!!”
Mark & Tami Crawford were my upline diamonds as well. There were many, many secrets in their organization. One example, I was active during the time of Don & Allie Lorenz, Mark & Tami’s first downline diamond couple. Had they taken the time to just tell the truth to explain to their organization what happened without trashing either Don or Allie, I am sure they would have gained a lot of respect. Instead, nothing was said, all questions/concerns were labeled “negative” and what happened? Don let people know his side of the story and the shenanigans that went on before and after he quit, on the internet for the world to see. Many, many diamonds and above have quit. Most of our upline diamonds quit and aligned with TEAM including Mark & Tami, Don & Nancy Wilson, Columbo & Karen Disalvatore. Other diamonds since 2004 in that organization have done the same – Claude & Lana Hamilton, Byron & Janice Roberts. Former IBOs from all levels left. True North, as you said in your previous post, no longer exists. From the “pulpit”, they repetitiously and religiously promoted A/Q* as being by far the best business opportunity on the planet bar none, it was ideal and there was residual income waiting for you at the top. So, why did they all quit? Prices too high? OW accusing Q* of being an illegal pyramid? IMO, none of that. When all is said and done, the hype was just that. Empty hype. The big pins, Platinum & up were earning far more from the BSMs than they were from Q*. With the stuff that happened with TEAM, the stuff going on in the UK, the tool scam exposures, their “real” business was being threatened. They got out while the gettin’ was good, methinks! Other big pins that quit or were terminated over the years, when you dig, always turns up some sort of nasty stuff going on. It could all be kept secret before the internet became readily available. Truth just won’t be stifled.
Many stay as IBOs. They tend to be trusting people and believe what their upline tells them like they’re taught. They are taught “group think” and independent thought is discouraged either overtly or covertly. Trusting is good. Provided your upline doesn’t dodge, spin and shoot messengers. Provided you can distinguish between truth and hype or lies.
For the first time, after the terminations last August, I do have to give Alticor/Quixtar credit for publicizing that & other events on the Alticor Media Blog (well, until recently when they have virtually reverted to silence again). I have never seen them come out swinging like that before. It was good to see. Yes, the truth will ruffle feathers. But you don’t not tell the truth because stuff needs to be exposed and fixed.
IMO, you can’t ever hide the truth. And in healthy relationships you can’t have some truths and some secrets. The truth is always out there somewhere and it always comes to light. The whole thing is kinda like putting lipstick on a pig. At first all you see is the lipstick but over time, you notice the smell and you just can’t mistake it’s a pig and you realize it always was. You can fool some of the people some of the time...
Great post!
That's the crux of the issue. The shroud of mystery that surrounds a lot of what goes on at quixtar and the AQMOs.
For example, the kingspins once said no profit made from tools. Then when the scam was exposed, it was swept under thr rug and IBOs blindly follow and say they now talk about profits from tools. (Even though there's no written contract).
Then the diamonds and the sheep act like nothing ever happened.
Stop the madness. Here is my take on why there is so much secrecy and lack of information that comes from these failed/quit/fired pins.
Do you remember two fellows named Rich and Jay? Well, they set up a sort of cover business to manage all the what we might call failed businesses they buy out "pennies for the dollar".
These are the generic pins that are speculatively described as failed diamonds. Many of these people have simply taken a "cash out" of their Biz and gone on to other things. The Devos and Van Andel Family Don's have--over many years--taken control of all the absent, quit, failed, and fired jewel level pins. Arbitration did not necessarily fail for these folk; they took a payout, and basically agree to zip up their lips in exchange for the cash.
Think about it. More cash coming in for the Quixtar Pyramid Executives who avoid paying commission/bonus money to a middle man pin. Make sense to you? Agree/Disagree?
Excellent post!!! I think part of the secrecy come from refusing to even acknowledge the negatives. I think they have drilled that and allowed certain things to go on for so long that coming clean is no longer an option. It creates a double standard. Like they say...Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. They have all been corrupted and it is allowed until there is some kind of threat, what ever that may be, so it’s time to clean house but not entirely….basically sweeping the dirt under the rug. Lets face reality…it pays more to be “dirty” rather than ethical.
: )
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