Paycheck to Paycheck.....Response response

I can't seem to reply again on Shaun's reply to my post.. Thanks Shaun for engaging into the discussion!

RESPONSE: I don't know what the direction of your article was. My impression was that you were lecturing people about how so many people are bad with money, but not you anymore since you started taking advice from Amway people. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sure it’s quite common but does that mean that it needs to be done and followed? My point is that’s what leads people into the mess of finances and I’ve mentioned before here that we used to do that. We ended up buying the fancy furniture and filling our condo with nice stuff so we could look good to our friends. Your comments on the being “ostracized” and “gently chided” just shows how old your mentality is towards what is going on now. I think out of everything you post this really bothers me because that’s not how things are today. We have members on our team that do go, and some that don’t go. We’ve never once, nor has my upline ever ostracized anyone for not going. We meet people with where they are at and how they want to build the business. It’s not just all or nothing, if you were involved or even wanted to find out the right information you’d notice this has changed. Its about time you grow up and start expanding your mind to the possibility that some things do change. Sorry you got screwed by your upline long ago, but don’t paint myself or my upline with the same brush. As for being proven, that’s your opinion. I’ve seen value in it and what its done for myself.

RESPONSE: Does it need to be followed? Answer that question yourself! Does your upline suggest that if you are serious about this you will be fully engaged in the system (despite a low success rate)? I think basically what I am trying to communicate to you is that just because *you* were stupid with your money it doesn't mean that by default everyone else is or was. If you think your upline would not even blink if you went off system, then I encourage you to do so and prove me wrong because I don't believe that. Not because I am narrow minded or because I lack the ability to accept differences either. It's because I know damn well that uplines (I suspect yours as well) depend on that money they collect when you buy their motivation. I may not have ALL the information, but you don't either. I suspect you aren't aware of the amount of money one can expect from the movement of tools, functions, voice mail if you use it (If you do you're a fool because voice mail is sooooo 80's). Are you aware of a payment schedule for tool movement through your organization? If not why not? It is your business, no? Real businesses don't do things unless they know what they will be getting paid for their efforts. I have no doubt you see value in the tools. They are DESIGNED for you to feel that way. Just like a Big Mac is designed to taste good, even though it isn't necessarily the best thing for your body.

Your right not our upline, this has never been taught or said from stage at any World Wide function since I’ve been involved. I can’t speak to “numerous uplines” because I’m obviously not as all knowing as you are. I’ll never ever teach that or encourage anyone to go into debt.

RESPONSE: So you don't tell your folks how important the functions and motivation is? You didn't encourage anyone to attend all 3 Dream Nights in Alberta in a 4 day span? I'm not all knowing, but I can draw up a conclusion based upon what I know, past experience, and common sense. For example, I have heard claims by your upline that are suspect at best. I don't believe they have your best interests at heart. As far as you never encouraging people to go into debt, GREAT! Can you say you represent your upline/downline? You have no control over that, which means it could happen even if you don't agree with it. Welcome to MLM.

Quite well actually. Thing is I set that date before we even decided to have kids, funny how life can change things eh? Guess life has never given you set backs or you’ve never had failures? Life is full of changes and have I had to reset that date. The lesson is being able to reset the date or anything in life and continue to strive for it. I will achieve it and have examples from my direct sponsor and upline in succession that have done it. Did they also change some of their dates? Yeah, but they still aimed for it and reached it. If you go through life quitting after missing a goal or target you’ll end up being just that a quitter. No that’s not aimed at being an Amway IBO, that’s ANYTHING in life.

RESPONSE: I am not criticizing you meeting your goal, I'm pointing out that you didn't. I have had TONS of setbacks. Quite frankly, one of the biggest setbacks former IBO's talk about is the business you are in right now! Enjoy the irony. I have no problem with goal setting, but I would encourage you to determine what you need to do to move forward. The answer is NOT in those CD's you listen to or the seminars you go to. They are what your upline needs *you* to do so *they* can move forward in my opinion.

I’ve never said Amway needs to be your plan B or your financial woes, guess you miss read that in my post?

RESPONSE: Your tone suggests that this is your plan B. I am stating that I believe it to be the WORST plan B I have ever seen.

Good for you, your trying to impress me how?

RESPONSE: Not trying to impress you....at all. Since I'm not on a WWDB CD or speaking from an Amway stage I sincerely doubt I COULD impress you. What I was attempting to do was demonstrate that I know people who are what you are trying to be, free. None of them act like Amway people. They don't put themselves up on pedestals, and quite frankly, you would never know they were millionaires. According to a book called "The Millionaire Next Door" that is how most millionaires act. In my experience, Amway leaders put themselves up on a pedestal with false humility and feigned concern for everyone's well being.

Your right, I won’t take that bet. However one thing I’ve seen with people I know that make around 1/2 a million to a few that make millions (on paper, not cashflow. BIG difference there) is they don’t live the life I want to live. Now I’m sure you’ll be quick to defend the 12 millionaires you know, but I can tell you the millionaires here the majority of them are working long hours, probably working up north away from their families. Flying in and out. Probably have more debt as the more money you make the more you’re able to leverage. Sure being a millionaire is cool but do you have the lifestyle that I want? 99% probably not. I’d actually love to have less money but have a marriage that’s on track, I’m able to see my kids each and every day, be able to bless people with money and help out great causes (Like Easter Seals, thanks for the comments on that by the way, glad to see your well rounded with your comments on my site), and overall have a much stress free life. Sorry making millions by flying in and out of the North is not my ideal life. Or running a company where I need to manage people and pay salaries, worry about financial stresses, assets, investments, the list goes on and on and on. You can be wealthy on paper, but are you wealthy in life? That’s what matters to me.

RESPONSE: A millionaire is someone who has a NET WORTH of a million bucks. Has nothing to do with cash flow and your objection is an Amway system response. The only "millionaires" I know of with cash flow problems are athletes with poor money skills and Amway folks. Look man, the life you are chasing, in my opinion doesn't exist. Even your hero leaders keep having to spin plates to keep the money flowing. Again, you cannot disprove it any more than I can prove it because their books will never be open to you or I. Stalemate, but I'd bet $1000 I'm right. As far as not commenting on your site the way you think I should, I'm not convinced you will post comments that disagree with WWDB teachings. Hell, you even remove my website link to my name, and welcome! It's your blog, fill your boots! That's the reason though,, and obviously you have a problem with people clicking my name from your blog. Your prerogative, my explanation.

So you don't want to run a company and pay salaries and worry about having to be responsible about stuff, yet you want to be financially independent? Good Luck with that.

Oh, my mistake, I didn’t know you were the overseeing authority on what being debt free was. Just because your leveraged doesn’t mean you need poo on my being debt free. Who said you HAVE to have a house and that determines your debt level? At least I’m not tied to a house and having a hard time trying to sell it before we move to Kelowna in a few years. We will see who’s laughing when people have to re-mortgage as the interest rate goes up and the ones who maxed out what they could afford end up walking away. As for disposable income, maybe for your upline that’s how it happened but my bank account grows each month. I know you find that so terribly hard to believe, but if you could just expand that thick skull of yours you may see that SOME things are a bit different. Your NOT the overseeing authority on all things Amway or WWDB, and neither am I. However the difference between you and I is that you built it years ago and failed, I am building it now and am succeeding in many areas.

RESPONSE: Yes, indeed. We'll see whose laughing when rent prices go through the roof due to higher interest rates as well. I wouldn't define myself as leveraged because I have a mortgage. I have control over my own destiny, I would argue more so that an Amway guy. I would never rent. I like doing what I want to my house, in my house, and i don't need some landlord telling me what I can and can't do. You're all about freedom? What if some oilfield millionaire offers to buy the house you're renting from the owner? You're out on your ass scrambling for a place for your family. My bank account grows every month too man. I spend less than I earn and don't go to a non productive function every 3 months either. More time with my family for me! Screw delayed gratification when it comes to time with my wife & kids! You never know what is going to happen next week, and I choose to spend my time with them now. You have conflicting arguments when you don't want to have to be away from your family to earn a living ( One of the reasons you want to be a big Amway guy), yet you left your wife & newborn at home to go to a function. Tell me the difference.

My kids need me now, not when I try to build some rinky dink low success rate multilevel marketing buisness and then spend all my time making CD's and speaking at functions so the money keeps coming in. Does that make me selfish and not forward thinking? If I had an upline it would!

I’m not a better person because I have an Amway business, however I’ve learned quite a few great things from a lot of the personal growth books and getting around people that have a lifestyle I think is pretty decent. Amway didn’t teach me that or give me those books. Besides what’s wrong with being a better person?

RESPONSE: You forgot to add if that's why you got into it, to become a better person? A business is to make money. Period. If you aren't making money you are not succeeding in business. I know it gets difficult to remember this when you are getting love bombed, but you should try to keep that in mind. Personal growth doesn't have to come from WWDB. In fact, WWDB doesn't even get a sniff when it comes to renowned motivational companies. Why not try a proven entity like Tony Robbins? Bet your upline wouldn't like that!

Arrogant and rude, you call me that yet you’ll post your own comment on your blog to illicit discussion and page rankings. LOL wow, glad to see your actually out here to have meaningful honest conversation. Guess not, just goes to show you don’t really care and are about the page rankings and trying to spread false information from ages ago. You say I’m not worth listening to, how are you worth listening to since you don’t even build this business anymore. Its been YEARS since you did anything and yet you keep spouting off the same old year after year. It’s getting quite boring and to be honest nobody really cares what you think anymore. Go ahead continue your discussion with the SAME old people that have been posting on your site for years.

I’ll say it again as I’ve always maintained on here, I’m very honest when we take people through the process and up front with all information, costs etc… Don’t try and paint me or our organization with the same brush you had.

RESPONSE: I will post my own comment on my own blog for a couple reasons. Firstly, if you don' seem to accept being challenged and have a history of not posting contradictory things. Secondly, I've had posts you wouldn't publish and you've even turned comments off because you didn't like people calling bullshit on your claims. Your blog, your choice! I'm all about meaningful conversation, but you obviously are not since you have a problem publishing all comments, so you can hop off your high horse on that topic, Lone Ranger.

I didn't say you aren't worth listening to, I just said you aren't really in a position where your financial advice should mean anything. If what you said came out of Kevin OLeary's mouth, that means something. You just aren't in a position to demonstrate the proof in the pudding!

I don't believe my information to be false. I have stated many times that I feel Amway's products are:

1. Inefficiently distributed & expensive

2. Shipping costs are ridiculous ( I noticed a slight increase this month as well, again, nothing YOU control)

3. The motivation has long been determined to be a significant (if not the majority) of the income which funds the diamond & above lifestyle.

4. Success rates are dismal.

I'm not necessarily painting the WWDB group with a brush, I have just yet to see anything different about it. What you describe is no different than any other organization I've been a part of or read about.

I have no doubt you are honest when you approach people about this business in the hopes of getting them either sponsored or buying Amway products. The problem is I don't believe you know much about what you are defending. Just like every other IBO out there, and that's because you aren't supposed to be listening to anyone else because they are negative dream stealers. For the record, I don't want your dream. What the hell would I do with it if I got it? It's useless to me. I got a few of my own, and I don't need a CD every day or a conference 4 times a year to make sure I still have it.

You're in a controversial business. People will Google it. It's my belief that is why Amway focusses on overseas growth.