Saturday, October 17, 2009

Where are the Amway critics?

Recently, David Steadson aka IBOFB made an appearance over at the QBlog Forum. Believe it or not, Mr. Steadson actually got me to thinking about things over a couple of days. Other than the usual spinning and PR tactics, one paragraph really grabbed me:

"Amway North America is currently growing substantially. Outside of the TEAM exodus in 2007/2008, Amway North America grew substantially in 2008 as well. There are 500-1000 new platinums every year and many new diamonds and above. Contrary to your claims, business is going well, and contrary to your claims, Amway has done a lot to address problems, as evidence by the fact there's virtually no new "critics".

First of all, where would one find this substantial growth? Has Amway released those statistics? Are there really a "substantial" number of new people in Amway?

As far as the 500 new platinums and above, that may very well be, but does this take into account overseas growth and transfer that over to North American businesses? You could have a guy in Canada who immigrated from India, and sponsors his friends back in India, but nobody else in Canada, yet still attains a platinum pin.

I guess what I'd like to know is if you can realistically expect to build a "substantial" business in North America with only North Americans in your group?

If someone were to say it's a common occurrence, I reject that. Not everybody has large families across the Atlantic where Amway hasn't had a chance to shoot itself in the foot yet.

So taking that into account, I really don't think the Amway business is going well.

I also don't think Amway has done anything to address the problems, although the heat does seem to be off a little now, compared to 2 years ago.

As far as there being no new critics, I would have to agree with Amway's staunchest defender. There really aren't, although that's hardly any of Amway's doing, and despite what his ego might think, it's not Mr. Steadson's doing either.

Wanna know what I think?

There's not many new critics because people aren't getting involved. They get prospected, they do a bit of research, and they simply don't do it!

C'mon, you can't tell me that recruiting of people in North America is up. If it was, Amway would be falling all over themselves (and so would David Steadson) telling everyone about it.

Pretty hard to have a bad experience in Amway when you don't get into Amway.

Make no mistake about it, the lack of new critics is because people now know more of the information the leaders (possibly Amway as well) didn't want them to know, and they choose not to get involved.

When you don't get involved, you don't spend more on products than you did before, and you don't spend thousands in useless travel to hear an egomaniac tell you his life story that nobody outside the room gives a shit about.

In short, you don't have a bad experience in Amway anymore because their reputation is so in the toilet that nobody gets involved to have a bad experience. Hence, no new critics.

No growth in North America either.

There aren't many new critics because people don't sign up. Pretty tough to have a bad experience when you're smart enough not to participate in the first place.

Thanks IBOFB. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

I've been travelling extensively the past month, so I haven't had the time to update. Got a new computer too, so I'm learning a new way of doing things.



Blogger Joecool said...

I'm pretty certain that Amway North America sales are down. I'm pretty sure that Amway would report US sales if they were up.

But you have apologists like IBOFB making up claims about sales being up. I say prove it.

And frankly, sales being up just means more IBOs are getting hosed since most of them don't make squat.

Looks like the foreign IBOs will have to learn what North American already know. Amway is not a good opportunity for most.

19 October, 2009 14:47  
Anonymous scott said...

No new critics....I think there would be a lot more higher level former pin critics but Amway has the power of arbitration over them, and their hired guns at JAMS.

Criticism from Goetschel and Haugen were removed from the net at Amway's request to bring settlement to their arbitration cases.

Just like in a civil lawsuit, Amway can always bring an arbitration claim against a vocal former high pin with out cause and without good reason. The former distributor must never the less defend themselves against the bogus claims and pay for attorneys. It is Amway's game plan to outspend any distributor or critic into submission since Amway had the larger pocket book.

Slowly over time distributors are learning that even thought they might be right, they cannot outspend Amway on litigation, especially when it is all hidden in arbitration...

19 October, 2009 15:31  
Anonymous mrmaximum said...

There are no new critics, and there are also not many new advocates either. Just my 2 cents; I had noticed that Scott Larsen got much more IBO 'hatemail' in the past. The intensity and the amount of this 'mail' seems to have declined as time has gone on.

I looked at that site years ago when I was in, and obviously as a critic, I drop by there from time to time. Years ago, when the business was doing well, it was easier for IBO's to be bullish about their business, critics could shout and scream all they wanted to, there was enough 'success' prevalent that any IBO could latch onto use to fuel their dream of Diamond. Time has marched on, Divorce, bankruptcy, and dishonesty has run rampant among the larger pins, plus the name change back to Amway hasn't helped in the least.

Anything good that happens with Amway, we all know that Apologists parrot it as much as they can, anything good is worth it's weight in gold to Amway, anything to stem the overwhelming negative their system produces.

What positive do they have to say now? When critics point out obvious flaws now, only the most steadfast Apologists have anything to offer as an arguement, as the obvious fact of WWDB diamonds selling homes and going backward in terms of pin level, and functions being consolidated due to attendance issues are hard things to spin or ignore.

When the Titanic was sinking intially, some of the passengers were simply wondering when the boat was going to get underway again. They didn't bother to get into the very cold lifeboats and where sluggish to comply.

When the ship began to list heavily, it was much more difficult to assume that nothing was wrong. Amway is sinking, and anyone with eyes and common sense can pretty much see it.

19 October, 2009 17:28  
Blogger dtytrivedi said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 October, 2009 18:49  
Blogger dtytrivedi said...

Amway has sales over a $1billion in five countries US, Japan, south korea, Russia and China

19 October, 2009 18:51  
Blogger Joecool said...

Amway could have sales of over a trillion dollars. It doesn't mean IBO's are profitable.

19 October, 2009 19:03  
Anonymous Tex said...


WRONG. The U.S. has been barely above $1 billion for several years, for the first time ever didn't announce volume in North America last year, and even Doug DeVos said it was a "challenging" year. Get your facts straight!

19 October, 2009 20:17  
Blogger Joecool said...

19 October, 2009 20:25  
Blogger IBOFB said...

Rocket, you're truly entertaining ....

Amway critics and credibility - another one bites the dust

20 October, 2009 07:25  
Anonymous mrmaximum said...

Case in point, since one cannot attack the arguement in a convincing fashion, attack the person, as IBO's have been trained to do. Nickel and Dime your way to success by drawing attention to any little detail that one can use to their benefit as merely facts alone cannot bolster up the Amway arguement.

Big Pins are going backward and even the founding families have noted that Amway North America is having a hard time, yet let's discredit a critic by pointing out that he doesn't understand a particular point in the amway compensation plan as if this will sway the onslaught of data that shows the Amway business is a losing proposition.

20 October, 2009 07:39  
Blogger dtytrivedi said...

well i just mentioned about steve van andel what he said in an interview.

pls i would suggest that go the source which i have mentioned below in my blog.

let me know if u don't find the link

20 October, 2009 07:43  
Blogger Joecool said...

Funny, IBOFB wants to criicize how much or little someone knows about the bonus payments etc that Amway pays. Who cares, most IBOs will never see these bonuses. Did you ever get one Steadson? Probably not. I like how you instantly assume I don't understand something because I didn't make a comment on it. I personally think you're an ass wipe but I don't post it all the time. :-)

20 October, 2009 12:16  
Blogger Joecool said...

IBOFB is one of those guys my upline used to talk about. Knows all the bonuses and how the business works but has yet to demonstrate that he actually has a growing business. The only verifiable info on IBOFB was his first time achievement at the 100 PV level. :-)

20 October, 2009 12:57  
Blogger IBOFB said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

20 October, 2009 16:17  
Blogger rocket said...

Iseem to distinctly remember Bo Short stating that he had bought his 6th leg in Honduras or Panama or some place in that area.

I will have to confirm.

I'll be back.

IBOFB, can you provide a link which shows foreign legs don't count?

20 October, 2009 17:19  
Blogger rocket said...

For the first time on this blog I've removed a post.

David Steadson, your link had NOTHING to do with your criticism of my post.

You are welcome to post here, but you may not bring up things about others extraneous to the topic at hand.

I may not agree with your views, but unless they are inconsiderate of others, you are free to express your point of view.

20 October, 2009 17:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amway has been flatlined at $1 Billion since 1999. That is TEN YEARS. TEN YEARS of flat growth. The folks who sponsored me into the business in Oct 2003 had just gone Platinum. They are part of a vyer large Emerald group out of New York. That group has added ONE PIN (an Emerald in Greece) and NO ONE else has changed pins (for the better).

22 October, 2009 13:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Amway's US market has not flatlined.

Actually it has declined.

They would need to be doing $1.6 billion today to keep up with their volume from ten years ago.

This year they slipped under the $1 Billion mark.

23 October, 2009 10:49  
Blogger quixtarisacult said...

Seems to me that there are always plenty of new critics of the Amway 'bidnez' appearing in Forums and chat rooms where ever Amway is mentioned. After all, isn't that what this Steadson fellow spends most of his time doing; defending the honor of Amway to anyone bold enough to publish the negative truths about this cult swindle? Dudes everywhere have caught on, and yes, they don't make the mistake of joining and getting fleeced like sheep. They don't make that mistake and then later on complain that Amway took them. IBOFB is a scum bag who advocates a known swindle. What does that make him? And why in the world does it take an ex-Amway IBO to make any valid criticizms of Amway? More of these will appear as time goes by.

The old Amway ex-critics have done a bang up good job, so many ex-believers most likely feel like it has all been said before.

23 October, 2009 14:26  
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19 November, 2009 06:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL to be honest I didn't know Amway still existed. Haven't heard of anyone trying to sell it for years. But then again, I live in Oz. Maybe never really caught on. Fads change like underwear down here.

02 December, 2009 05:23  
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05 December, 2009 12:38  
Blogger Sean said...

I agree - i attended a recruitment meeting, heard what the presenter had to say, then sniggered and left. The fundamental structure of amway looked remarkably like a pyramid or ponzi scheme. So I am another recruit that never joined

16 December, 2009 09:36  
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21 December, 2009 05:31  

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