Rocket's Rants

Actually.........

2012-01-09T12:48:00.000-06:00

True Growth has nothing to do with doubling anything other than your business volume and profits......

Sorry. My bad. Thinking in real business like terms.

I have no doubt that Brad Duncan has grown his profits because there are people buying his unproven motivation. The real question would be what about YOUR business?

Yeah. Stupid reality.

Passion & Warriors

2012-01-07T06:00:00.000-06:00

I get a real kick out of all the Amway system leaders, as well as the L.I.F.E (self anointed) Gurus. I love how they pretend to be some kind of superhero who are engaged in battling a made up goliath of mediocrity.

I wrote a post about the idiocy of some of Orrin Woodward's faithful and I think it was clear what I thought.

You all want motivation? Look around. You don't need to pay these idiots your hard earned cash to inspire you. Their inspiration is tainted by dollar signs and they depend on it to pay the bills. Besides, have they really taught you how to make money? That's what they claimed they could do when you decided to sign up.

I found something that kicks the hell out of anything Woody or WWDB has to offer. Woodward is always talking about being a warrior? That's pretty much an insult compared to this guy. Anyone who calls themselves a warrior is obviously trying to compensate for something. You figure it out.

Enjoy, and pay attention. You might learn something that could actually help you instead of just paying for more of the same.

I'm going to go and destroy something now. I suggest you do the same.

Let's Talk About Support Systems

2012-01-04T19:17:00.003-06:00

I was over browsing at the online Journal of a Worldwide Dreambuilder (an Amway Motivational Organization) who had a very compelling post about support systems and how the Amway one he is currently involved with compares (financially) to other credible and successful support systems.

First of all, I think it's important to clarify why I am using my own blog to give my thoughts. As is seemingly customary with Amway folk in this here internet age, there are no opposing views allowed on Shaun's blog anymore. Fair enough, his blog, his choice, but it's pretty clear to even the most casual observer why this tac is taken..He made it clear he isn't interested in hearing the cold hard realities about Amway not being a real business (who pays $100 a year to "own" their business?), and how highly unlikely it is that he will be able to walk away from his job any time in the near future.

But I digest.....er digress.

John Maxwell is of course brought out as the first example. On his website we find that he has a fee of $179 a year to join the maximum impact club. Not a bad deal. Certainly cheaper and more credible that being involved with WWDB! I don't know why an Amway guy wouldn't just go and use Maxwell's stuff! Oh, wait. Yes I do. It's because the upline would get pissed off that they aren't profiting from the motivation purchases. Did you know that in many lawsuits high level leaders stated under oath that the PRIMARY income source of income is not the movement of Amway products, but the motivational sales?

I think that matters.....

In addition, John Maxwell is a pretty pricey guy! But have a look at what his credentials are.

"Dr. Maxwell is the founder of EQUIP, a non-profit organization that has trained more than 5 million leaders in 126 countries worldwide. Each year he speaks to the leaders of diverse organizations, such as Fortune 500 companies, foreign governments, the NFL, and the United Nations. A New York Times best selling author, Dr. Maxwell books have sold 18 million copies."

How does that compare to an Amway guy and his motivational system? I know, not really a fair comparison is it?

I could go on about the real people who have made a business out of motivation like Tony Robbins and the like, but it's pretty much going to lead where I've already gone. Professional motivators sink or swim in the free market, and Amway motivational guys will exist as long as they have an Amway downline, whether they are good or not! Why?

Here's fricking why.....You know those Amway videos where the crowd is going ape shit for some dude like Brad Duncan going on stage? It's not really because he's smart you know. It's not because he's made thousands of people free from a job either. It's because the Amway faithful are TAUGHT to react to these people in an over the top fashion. Whether they deserve it or not. They are also TAUGHT to go to 3 different functions in 4 days! Why? Money, maybe? And not for anyone but the Amway leader I don't think. I don't think any Amway diamond is worthy of much praise, but that's my opinion. But I'm at an unfair advantage. I'm ALLOWED to question these folks. Amway "Independent" business owners are not to be questioning their upline.

In closing, I will challenge any Amway dude this, which makes the comparison to Tony Robbins and John Maxwell pretty much a red herring useless piece of crap self serving piece of propaganda. It's just a question, and it's relevant. I'm going to bold it and make it in bigger letters to both make it more aesthetically pleasing and to hammer home the Godamn obvious......

Did you join a self help group, or did you become a business owner to make money?

If you like feeling good, then hey! Keep doing what you're doing! Go on Communikate! Buy monthly books and CD's! Spend thousands on travel to go to functions and hear things that make you feel good but don't produce much in the way of financial rewards! Go ahead!

But don't call yourself a business owner because you simply aren't in control of a whole helluva lot. You are taught to submit to your upline. Doesn't sound very independent to me. You are participating in a support system because you are told to, not because it produces any financial results whether you want to admit it or not.

Plus you have an arsenal of overpriced products from a company with a shitty reputation.

Winning combo, that.

Support System? Of that I have no doubt, but who is it supporting? The Amway dude or the people providing the support system? You decide, but the obvious appears to escape many......

End of rant.

Let's Talk About L.I.F.E.

2011-12-28T11:34:00.003-06:00

I was reading over at ol' Woody's blog today and read his most recent post about "Taking Life's Leadership Challenge".

Hmmmmm. Take the challenge eh?? I believe that based on what I know of Orrin Woodward that means, "Gimme your money".

In his post he says that L.I.F.E. has changed the rules. By lowering the barriers to entry for hungry leaders (and potential leaders), LIFE has provided an opportunity for people to listen, learn, and lead at an affordable price. Where else can you receive 4 leadership CD’s and a book from best selling authors, bloggers, and leadership gurus for $50?

First of all, I love the word games. He suggests that someone is not hungry if they don't want to participate in L.I.F.E. and if you are already in L.I.F.E. you are defacto hungry. So.....if I buy his CD's and books that makes me a leader? Interesting.

As far as being best selling authors I think that has been debunked over at the Amthrax Blog where a few former TEAM folks have made suggestion that being a best selling author was manipulated.

With nearly 1200 bonafide customers, along with thousands of satisfied members, LIFE is giving average people the opportunity to achieve un-average results. In fact, with little downside risk (the worst thing that can happen is you receive world-class training at a world-class price), and major upside rewards, LIFE is drawing thousands of former networkers back into the fold.

OK, so now we have BONA FIDE customers as opposed to just plain old customers. Strange you would have to point out the difference. So 1200 people are buying the motivation but aren't on the L/I.F.E. program? That seems awfully low when you consider that BONA FIDE motivational speakers have that many people attend a single seminar. You'd think there would be more.***EDIT added after originally posted...Whether or not Woody's "training" is world class is very much up for debater as well. Where are the results that prove this?*****

These former networkers loved the community building and pay for performance aspects of networking, but struggled with the $300 to $500 of product purchases needed monthly. LIFE offers a way to start making income without stretching already stretched budgets. Indeed, a person can utilize the Three for Free program and literally receive his leadership materials for FREE.

Ah, so Orrin is as much as admitting there is no need for products in his MLM business. Wonder what the Federal Trade Commission would think of that? This also makes it crystal clear that the money directed to the products could be interpreted as a hindrance and getting in the way of Woody's profits.

This next part is what is so weird.....

Have you taken the LIFE Leadership Challenge yet? Anyone can sign up for the LIFE orLaunching a Leadership Revolution (LLR) series materials at no risk. Listen to the materials for yourself and see the LIFE difference. If you are not satisfied with the materials, LIFE offers a 30 day “no questions asked” return policy.

There's then a hyperlink that leads you to this weird TEAM Orrin Woodward site. This is absolutely ridiculous and a shameless self promotion. One gets a real glimpse into Woody's opinion of himself here as he goes into he sees what others don't see and how that is the burden of every leader. I guess that means him, Baby, and Clod Hamilton along with Mr. Strategic Default.

He then goes on to quote a person smarter than him (again) regarding the alleged process which resulted in the development of L.I.F.E.

First, it is ridiculed. - In this case deservedly so.

Second, it is violently opposed. - Not really opposed, just EXPOSED. Nothing violent either as far as I know except for some weird TEAM L.I.F.E. guy inviting people opposed to L.I.F.E. to Chicago to fight.

Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. - That it's a loser as far as making money for everyone but a few.

Then ol' Woody goes on to compare himself to Winston Churchill(!)

Nowhere on this page that I could see is there a place to sign up and get on the L.I.F.E. system.

So how in the hell do you take the L.I.F.E. Leadership Challenge? What is the L.I.F.E. Leadership Challenge? Is it just buying Woody's amateur motivation? WTF?

So what do I take from all this? Desperation. I truly believe that ol' Woody has no idea how to overcome objections to people who aren't in a brainwashed state of admiration. I mean, look at all his frocking blogs and how there is no opposing views published! Woody doesn't know how to proceed and I give it less than 24 months before he's off to adopt another generic name change to cover himself within search engine rankings again. Having to change who you are every few years certainly doesn't give an air of confidence to who you are and what you are doing.

My father's business (remember, he is a success) has had the same name for over 30 years! He didn't change it! I was talking to him over Christmas and had this post in mind. I asked him if he ever wanted to change his business's name.

He looked at me like I had grown a set of testicles out of my earlobe and asked, "Why the hell would I want to have to start all over after I worked so hard at establishing a good name for me & my company"?

Exactly. Thanks Dad. My dad is smarter than Orrin Woodward the Guru.

Happy New Year to everyone!

Merry Christmas!

2011-12-24T08:55:00.002-06:00

Just a quick post to everyone out there in the internet universe to wish you a Merry Christmas. Whether you are a die hard, true blue Amway believer or a critic I wish you happiness and fulfillment.

I hope you all find time to see your families and friends and take the time to appreciate all the things and people you have in your life and to be grateful for them.

I for one am grateful for my family, my friends, and all the people I work with. Even though the in-laws are coming for a few days. Operation madhouse is about to commence, and this year's goal is to put the "fun" back into dysFUNctional.

All the best, people.

"The Dream"

2011-12-13T11:44:00.003-06:00

I got to thinking today (I occasionally do) about how people can be exploited by AMO's who promise them the world, as long as they buy into their system.

Then I started thinking about how ineffective the systems are in terms of making money. I mean really, don't you think you would know somebody if this Amway (+ insert WWDB, Yager, BRITT etc) thing really worked? Would you not hear about more of them? For goodness sake, I know a group of people who won about $50,000 each in a lottery but I have never met a "free" Amway dude. And I have met and spoken to a few diamonds, and in retrospect I don't think they were free.

Think about it. You see and hear about millionaires all the time in the media. How many of them are Amway millionaires? How many of the millionaires in Amway are actually millionaires with a net worth of over a million bucks? I would respectfully suggest that there are some who profess to be millionaires that are not, simply because telling or insinuating to people that you are a millionaire is not a tendency of a real millionaire.

How do I know? My dad is one. Several of his associates are as well. Other people who I knew growing up who were business owners are also millionaires with considerable assets. This is not up for debate, it is fact.

These wealthy people I speak of do not feel the need to lecture, have big meetings, and tell other people how to live. They also are completely free to do whatever they want, most of them simply choose to keep doing what they have been doing because they like it.

They don't have a corporation telling them how to conduct their business, they decide. They decide about every single aspect of their business and are beholden to absolutely nobody. I don't see that as true for the self professed millionaires that you find in Amway and other MLM's.

The leaders are forced to comply with rules they don't want to because the corporation imposes them upon the leader. They also have to tell prospects things they would rather not because the corporation says so. They have to deal with high priced merchandise and ridiculous shipping fees because the corporation says so.

So how's that dream sound? No thanks.

As for me & my jay-oh-bee, my wife and I are off to a tropical 5 star resort in the Caribbean next month with some great friends. I will be chucking a football, drinking, and re-connecting with my wife for a week. We are going first class white glove all the way. Get some snorkelling in, have some nice quiet evening meals, hang on the beach and just enjoy life. I don't believe that doing that all day every day is neither achievable nor good for a person. I also highly doubt people with the financial wherewithal would ever do nothing but vacation for the rest of their lives.

There seems to be a built in code with people who have a lot of money that won't allow them to do nothing but lounge. The only people you see doing that are the people who didn't earn it and they will do that until they get cut off or else blow through the money they didn't earn.

I don't believe The Dream as the Amway leaders advertise exists. Nobody in Amway right now has stepped away to enjoy the beach forever, nor do I believe they could because they must continually push their motivation on people and hold out the carrot. Frankly, the people who step away generally end up quitting later on, and you find out they stepped away because they didn't want to do this anymore.

Think about it. You invested EVERYTHING to become a diamond in Amway, and once you get there, you realize that you can't just walk away or else it will all fall apart, so you continue doing night owls, weekend seminars, and the like just to make a living. You can't walk away, because this is how you make money now, and you need to keep doing it to support your lifestyle! I don't buy into the cock and bull story that they diamonds keep returning to seminars because they care about and love the people in Amway. Not for a minute. i believe they have to, or else you would see more foreclosures on these Amway dream homes.

And they say jobs are like prisons.

No thanks Amway. No thanks WWDB. No thanks to all the people who perpetuate this (in my opinion) fallacy.

I'll live on planet earth. In the Caribbean sometimes.

And I won't have to meet some fake level to earn the right to do so. I'll just pay my own way.

Soooo Much Integrity it Drips!

2011-12-10T17:52:00.003-06:00

I sent the following message to Shaun GUTHRIE over at Expedition Of Truths for a post where he claims people in WWDB are laden with integrity for seemingly no other reason than agreeing to be a part of Amway and/or WWDB. No response, no surprise......Enjoy!

Hey, I noticed your comments are off so I thought I'd email you. Hope all is going well with you

The only point I wanted to make is you absolutely do not know who you are getting into business with. In a true business partnership, the books would be open and you would know exactly how much is made, how it is made, and what the expenses & effort exerted for the profit was. You suggest Brad Duncan is practically dripping with integrity, yet you have people like Wolgamott & Kosage leaving. They are obviously more in the know than you, as they are both at very high levels. Why would they do that? You know nothing about Brad Duncan or any other person in his position any better than you know Wayne Gretzky. Sure, you may have had a few words with them and met them in person, but do you know them? No, you don't. If they don't want you to know something about them, you simply don't know it. Deal with it and remember it. Movie stars have a public and a private persona, I personally believe the same to be true with Amway "leaders".

Constantly you talk about how you are associated with people who have integrity. I have no doubt that your upline is nice to you. I have no doubt you believe what you are saying, but to suggest someone has integrity simply because they are in Amway and specifically WWDB is disingenuous at best and quite frankly it's laughable and sounds like a canned response you hear at meetings. So if someone who is a drug dealer joins Amway they automatically have integrity? What about a guy who beats his wife? He's an asshole one day, but because he decides to join Amway after you show him the plan he automatically has integrity? That's how you come across dude, and it makes you look foolish and naive.

You claim to educate people about the costs, yet those costs are not available to anyone who may be researching the business. Why is that? You may be quick to say it's none of your business and you may be right, but how can someone truly get all the answers that you say you always provide? If you say that you will provide those costs to your prospects, then you are simply controlling information. Why? I think you know the answer to that.

Lastly, and this is the most obvious point. You like to talk about how you develop trust and friendships with people before they get into the business. I would respectfully suggest that you ask yourself why that is necessary? Does the business not sell itself on it's own merit? In my opinion, the answer is no, it doesn't. This is why you must create relationships and develop a bond with people in order for them to join your business. Otherwise, they'll see that the prices are out of whack, it's an inefficient method of distribution, and the costs associated with participating make it even more uncompetitive.
Why? Does a franchise owner in the real business world have to do that? Did he have to develop a relationship with the corporation? No! He asked to see the numbers, saw the numbers, and decided it was a viable business. NOBODY would ever determine that after seeing a diamond's numbers I don't believe.

I would be very curious to see how you increased your product volume by going to 3 Dream Nights in a 4 day span. You & I both know you didn't. All you did was drop about $500 bucks in gas & time & admission fees to feel good about yourself and eat a meal with a bunch of other people in the same boat.

If you TRULY believe in the Amway business (powered by WWDB....whatever) then I would challenge you to show it to an already successful person who is not in Amway. I mean a person who is already a millionaire ie a net worth of a million bucks, cash flow is irrelevent. That's a make believe Amway response because a millionaire by definition will have a million at their disposal. Genuinely ask the opinion of a millionaire. I already know the answer you'll get but you obviously don't think I could be right. Don't forget that just because someone is not in Amway does not mean they don't have integrity. There are far more millionaires out of Amway than in it. Don't you ever forget that.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I wish you & yours a Merry Christmas and all the best in 2012!

No Problem! Business As Usual! Part 2

2011-10-01T06:34:00.005-05:00

This is a continuation of my previous entry where I was attempting to ascertain whether or not the claims made in the video were anything to get in a twist over. I must emphasize again that based on my queries to Amway, there is nothing wrong with claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in the Amway business. It isn't hard either. And I love you.

Re: FYI Outrageous LEADER claim
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FROM:
Rocket Rocket
TO:
bcr@amway.com
Message flagged
Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:48:39 PM
Message body
Good Morning Ms. O'Neill

Is saying these types of things acceptable? That is a yes or no question, and the canned politically correct answers I seem to get from the Amway Corporation regarding issues like this give me the impression that you really aren't interested in how the Amway opportunity is presented to people who are ignorant of the realities of this business. I have now given you two very clear cut examples of the behaviour that critics froth at the mouth over, yet no apparent action seems to take place.

Why the secrecy? I myself was a victim of this type of irresponsible behaviour which is what has created the critic position I currently am in.

The claims made (the business isn't hard and you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month) seem to fly in the face of the rules Amway claims to enforce. In general, what kind of consequence can be expected for a leader to make claims similar to this, should it be deemed unacceptable?

I seriously want to be able to see Amway take a REAL stance to this type of ridiculous snake oil salesman behaviour. I really want to know there are consequences for breaking the rules. How many people have false hope instilled by claims such as these? How many 30 second clips like this exist? I know of several others.....

What I see happening is people not being allowed to record leaders like this anymore but claims similar to these still being made, just not recorded. Amway's lack of response is in essence acceptance of this, and that is precisely what my blog post will reflect.

I know that a corporation as massive and influential as Amway couldn't care less what I think, but I think it's only fair to tell you how I perceive this, and how I will articulate that to my readers.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to write a post that is supportive of Amway stopping this crap in it's tracks because this exact type of scenario is what pisses people like me off, and will continue to piss people off.

Look, I don't care for your products and I don't think they are worth the money people pay. That is my opinion. I don't have a problem with what Amway charges for it's products, or how it markets the products, I just don't buy them. I don't buy stuff from Best Buy either, but I don't have a blog about what i think of their company's behaviour because I don't think they hurt people by allowing victimization to happen over and over and over again. Decade after Decade.

What I take issue with is that you allow this behaviour to fester and continue to victimize people. Please don't confuse me with Tex because I am nothing like him. I don't care for nor will I ever accept the deception Amway allows from its leaders.

Again, you likely don't care what I think, but I know that people like the individual in the video DEPEND on you more than you think. Where would they be without the Corporation?

Please do something. Do the right thing. And let everyone see you do the right thing. I will again offer up a solution as to how to cope with this behaviour, as you didn't indicate any interest last time.

Thanks you for your time, and all the best.

Rocket

Surely to goodness that will illicit some type of response, will it not? After all, I make it really clear that I am having reservations about the accuracy and quality of information on the video. Surely there must be some misunderstanding here. I hadn't heard anything from the Amway Corporation after a while, so I send a follow up email on August 23rd. After all, there's summer holidays to consider and they are likely very busy! Cool your jets Rocket!

Fw: FYI Outrageous LEADER claim

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Rocket Rocket

TO:

bcr@amway.com

Message flagged

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:40:23 AM

Message body

As per my message sent last month, are the things being stated by Mr. Duncan appropriate? I am planning on doing a blog post soon. In the interest of fairness, I would like to get Amway's perspective on this. I get many emails from current and former IBO's who would be interested on the corporation's stance on this matter. In addition, I have had contact with a media outlet in the US who has expressed interest in my blog posts and sought clarification on certain posts.

I would appreciate a response by the end of this week. In the absence of any answer, I must assume you are OK with these types of claims.

Many Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you soon!

Rocket

All right, summer's over and things are returning to normal any day now. I'm going to get a response about this and it will all be just a misunderstanding. Any minute now......

Nothing! Can you believe it?

So I send another email on September 5th:

Can you answer my question?

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FROM:

Rocket Rocket

TO:

bcr@amway.com

Message flagged

Monday, September 5, 2011 10:24:19 AM

Message body

As per my question posed to the Amway Corporation in July, August, and now September, I am still wondering if the statement of making "hundreds of thousands of dollars a month" is an acceptable statement as an Amway IBO. Is that an accurate depiction of income earnings in Amway? Would you please be able to provide a percentage of IBO's who consistently achieve hundreds of thousands of dollars a month as an Amway IBO?

If this is not an acceptable statement, were sanctions taken against the person in the video. I believe he is or at least was a member of the IBOAI. Interesting that you don't respond! Some would consider it highly unprofessional. Not me though, I would like to say I'm surprised, however, that would not be true.

Kind Regards

Rocket

I'm starting to get the impression that one of three things has happened:

1. Amway is not getting my emails.

2. Amway isn't interested in ensuring that I understand the way their business works

3. I'm way off base and there is nothing the matter with what is said

4. You decide, 'cause I just don't know. I obviously can't count either....

So I send off an email on September 6th to none other than the Chairman of the Ethics Committee for the IBOAI, Bob Andrews. I included all the other emails that I had already sent.

Fw: Can you answer my question?

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Rocket Rocket

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bobandrews@iboai.com

bcr@amway.com

Message flagged

Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:26:26 PM

Message body

Good afternoon Mr. Andrews. I understand that you are the Chair of the Legal &Ethics Committee with the IBOAI. I have sent a number of emails (below) regarding claims made by a high level IBO who I have just discovered is the Chairman of the IBOAI. I have received no response from Amway BCR as to whether or not this is an acceptable claim by Mr. Duncan on this video at the following location:

http://vimeo.com/26881709

Is this an acceptable and realistic statement by Mr. Duncan? Is it common for IBO's to be earning "hundreds of thousands of dollars per month" as a result of their involvement in Amway? If so, can you provide a rough percentage of IBO's who are presently earning over $200,000/month?

I am hoping you will yield more of a response than BCR, whatever that stands for. As you can see, I have attempted to ascertain what is and what is not acceptable. Amway's rules of conduct appear to be very clear on this, in that IBO's are not to misrepresent income earning potential. How can one determine what is and what isn't acceptable? In addition, how can one know whether or not the Rules of Conduct are being broken if there is no "standard" that applies? In short, how can one know what can & cannot be said? This doesn't seem to me to be a very honest depiction of the Amway business or the earning potential of the average IBO.

I am preparing a blog post regarding this video, and in the interest of fairness I would like to give you, Amway, or Mr. Duncan an opportunity to respond. BCR's lack of response will be illustrated in my post and I'm hoping that you will be able to help me obtain a balanced view of this matter. Right now I must confess that I believe this to be unrealistic at best, and dishonest at worst.

Amway BCR has been included in this message. I feel I have been above board and patient while awaiting an answer since it was first posed in July and it is now September.

I appreciate your time!

Rocket

Again, I really hate to sound like a broken record, but isn't there some type of liability being undertaken by Amway here? I mean, hey! They make it clear that you can expect:

"The Amway Global business opportunity is unlimited, but individual results vary. The average monthly gross income for “active” IBOs was $115 (US) and $181 (CAN) based on an independent 2001 survey. Approximately 66% of all IBOs of record were found to be active."

Yet when videos like this show up, there is no denunciation if it's wrong nor affirmation of zero wrong doing?

Sooooo if I am an IBO, who do I believe? The guy who is there talking to me and has already achieved what appears to be a great deal of success in the business, or the Corporation who seemingly does nothing and says nothing about these types of claims in spite of the fact that their own literature seems to fly in the face of what this guy says?

I will pose this question, feel free to answer in the comments.

To whom does the new or up & coming IBO display their loyalty to? Their upline or the Corporation? In my experience, it isn't the corporation, and there are SCADS of blogs throughout the blogosphere which make that very clear.

That could spell trouble for Amway. It's one thing to have rules, but not enforcing them could come back to bite them. I mean, here is the Corporation disclosing a document outlining what the average IBO makes based on a 10 year old study. I don't know if this is to be disclosed verbally when prospecting someone, but does this disclosure mean anything?

You can read something, but if you are normal, you aren't going to be able to process a multi page document and know every darn thing on there in 5 minutes, especially if you have no knowledge of the Amway business previously. Even IF you were able to comprehend it and have reservations based on the income disclosure, what does it matter? You have no way of disproving what your sponsor or some other gung ho IBO says.

You have a guy telling you you'll make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month right here! Lots of people cheer for him and clap for him on stage! Are you really going to argue with him knowing that he has an entire room of people who obviously admire him?

That would take an incredibly talented person to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff in this instance!

So, if you are an IBO, who are you listening to? What can you say? What is true and what is not?

I think a very reasonable question is does Amway's own literature mean anything? Or is it a document that protects them, and not the average prospect?

So...What to make of all this? I dunno. I guess it's OK in Amway's books if you as a high level leader make claims that this isn't a hard business and you will make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in this business. That's the impression I get anyway by the lack of response from the corporation as well as the chairman of the ethics committee.

So get out there and build your Amway business! After all:

1. It's not hard

2. You just need a dream that you don't let anyone steal

3. You will make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in Amway!

Boy, was I way off base! Shows how much I know.........

I love you.

No Problem! Business as Usual! Part 1

2011-09-29T06:00:00.001-05:00

This is just a follow up from my previous post, and the follow up I went through after finding a video I didn't think was appropriate. Turns out my concerns and thoughts were way off.

I have received feedback the person in the video is Brad Duncan who is on the IBOAI and is currently the Chairman of the Board of Directors. I have read on other blogs that he only Crown who still shows the plan. However, I determined that to be another Amway Urban Legend.

It struck me as a rather bold statement that one could make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in Amway. That's a lot of money and a lot of vitamins and energy drinks that you would have to be generating sales for every month in order to "make" over $200,000 every month. Man! That would be a LOT! I mean, like, man......words fail me. Can you imagine how many cans of XS you're pumping through your business to be "making" hundreds of thousands a month? Like, holy! But by golly, this guy is a Crown Direct, and if he says something, you can take it straight to the bank. At least that was the impression I got after numerous inquiries to the Amway corporation.

I did some searching around and located the Amway Business overview (SKU # BOV Content reviewed # 20263). I guess some guy put it online for all to see. For the record, I don't know who the guy hosting this image is, but I did find it useful.

In there, (bottom of the 4th page) it clearly states that the average monthly gross income for “active” IBOs was $115 (US) and $181 (CAN) based on an independent 2001 survey. This independent survey was done in 2001 and “active” means an IBO attempted to make a retail sale OR presented the Independent Business Ownership Plan OR received bonus money OR attended a company or IBO meeting in the year 2000.

So for my Canadian peeps, in this 2001 survey it would appear that if you tried to sell your buddy an energy drink and did nothing else for a whole year, you were considered active, and would have been a part of the "active" IBO used to acquire the average income data and would be presumed to average $181 a month. Before expenses.

So, what's the big deal? What's wrong with telling people that they could make hundreds of thousands of dollars month in this business? If it's true, then what is the problem?

The short answer is nothing. There is no problem. However, dear reader, based on Amway's own data I personally had reservations believing that one can reasonably expect to make a couple hundred grand a month selling Amway products. Call me skeptical, call me a loser or a dream stealer. I could be wrong, but if it was that common don't you think you'd hear more about it? I would think so.

So in order to figure out what the heck was right and what was maybe being misunderstood, I sent an email at the behest of Jason Ménard over at North of the 49th in a post regarding the power of Social Media to The BCR, which is the Business Conduct and Rules Department.

I thought that in a business where a 2001 study determined the average active income for an IBO was $115 (US) and $181 (CAN), someone who is claiming one can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month is a bit, I don't know......out there? Hey! I'm no Harvard grad, but that's a LOT of money! I mean a LOT!

Am I wrong here?

So.....off to get some answers I go, and I send this email off to the BCR, way back in July of this year. Bear with me here, I am basically copy and pasting these emails to this post. The only edits I have made are to format them so it reads in a comprehensive manner.

FYI Outrageous LEADER claim

Rocket Rocket
to: bcr@amway.com
07/22/2011 06:17 PM
From: Rocket Rocket <rocketsrants@yahoo.ca> To: "bcr@amway.com" <bcr@amway.com>

Please respond to Rocket Rocket <rocketsrants@yahoo.ca>

I would appreciate it if any sort of consequence or lack thereof were to
arise from this.....

If this is acceptable, please say so.

If it isn't, please say so.

I will be posting a post regarding these types of messages on my blog.
Your response or lack of response will be noted.

Rocket

I then included a link with the video you see at the start of this post. I was then treated to the following response:

Brad

Thank you for your E-mail. I was unable to open the attachment you sent.
Can you please resend in PDF? Can you also please include your IBO number?

Business Conduct and Rules
616.787.6712

I don't know who sent that reply back to me, there is no name of the Amway corporate employee attached to it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since he or she wasn't really bright enough to know that I wasn't Brad. I can't send a PDF of a video, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really that computer savvy, so maybe it can be done! However, I thought to myself, "Self, let's just make this easier for the Amway Corporation to figure out.

So I sent this back to BCR:

I am not an IBO, nor will I ever be again. I located the video on YouTube and saved it before it was deleted. I have seen many videos like this involving the same individual.

I would like to know what Amway is doing about statements such as this which I believe are dishonest. If I am incorrect, please advise if this is acceptable as I plan on doing a blog post regarding statements such as this.

You may view the video here:

http://vimeo.com/26881709

Rocket

So then I get an email back from Karen O'Neil. Now.....Ms. O'Neil has had some pretty harsh things said about her by other bloggers out there. Well, just one blogger really. I will go on record right now and say that I have nothing negative to say about Ms. O'Neil. Here's what she replied back:

When it comes to income claims and representations, we do have rules and standards that apply. As such, we will certainly investigate the origins of this video and address any issues that may conflict with those rules and standards, as per our normal process.

Karen O'Neill
Rules Administration

Re: FYI Outrageous LEADER claim

Rocket Rocket to: bcr@amway.com
07/25/2011 04:47 PM

Please respond to Rocket Rocket

Again, i will apologize for the mish mash of the email copy & paste, it just isn't going well. So anyway.....there you have it! They have rules & standards and they are going to look into it. Right on! After all, a civil question deserves a civil answer doesn't it! OK! Now I'm going to get some answers! I'm feeling really good about this and really feel like I'm part of the solution now!

I'm expecting Amway to say, "You know what Rocket, there are lots of IBO's who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month with their Amway business. You are completely out to lunch and should shut your mouth. Here, look at this document. Here's the number of IBO's who make over $200,000 a month. Your suspicions of this not being true are completely baseless, and quite frankly you should be embarrassed for even QUESTIONING the integrity of the speaker in that video". So I reply to her in this email on July 26th......

To Be Continued.......

Oh, and by the way

I love you all. Truly

Amway Guys - They Sure Say Stuff!

2011-09-25T20:20:00.001-05:00

A while back, I was doing some searching around the ol' internet and came across this video. I found this on Youtube, and the title claims this person to be Brad Duncan. I don't know if it is or not because I have never met Mr. Duncan, so if you can confirm, please do so! I don't know who took this video other than it was maybe someone who didn't qualify as a Platinum it would seem.

I am curious to see what people think of the income claim made here, and the perception in general this particular message portrays. I have a few questions that I would really be curious to hear your answer to:

1. How do you feel after watching this?

2. Where do you think this falls under the rules of conduct guidelines?

3. What do you think Amway would say about this video?

4. What would you think if you were an IBO? Do you listen to this guy (Is this Brad Duncan, the Chair of the IBOAI?) or Amway when it comes to realistic income claims?

5. Should Amway be OK with this?

Oh, make no mistake about it, I love you too, man.

Paycheck to Paycheck.....Response response

2011-09-18T12:18:00.002-05:00

I can't seem to reply again on Shaun's reply to my post.. Thanks Shaun for engaging into the discussion!

RESPONSE: I don't know what the direction of your article was. My impression was that you were lecturing people about how so many people are bad with money, but not you anymore since you started taking advice from Amway people. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sure it’s quite common but does that mean that it needs to be done and followed? My point is that’s what leads people into the mess of finances and I’ve mentioned before here that we used to do that. We ended up buying the fancy furniture and filling our condo with nice stuff so we could look good to our friends. Your comments on the being “ostracized” and “gently chided” just shows how old your mentality is towards what is going on now. I think out of everything you post this really bothers me because that’s not how things are today. We have members on our team that do go, and some that don’t go. We’ve never once, nor has my upline ever ostracized anyone for not going. We meet people with where they are at and how they want to build the business. It’s not just all or nothing, if you were involved or even wanted to find out the right information you’d notice this has changed. Its about time you grow up and start expanding your mind to the possibility that some things do change. Sorry you got screwed by your upline long ago, but don’t paint myself or my upline with the same brush. As for being proven, that’s your opinion. I’ve seen value in it and what its done for myself.

RESPONSE: Does it need to be followed? Answer that question yourself! Does your upline suggest that if you are serious about this you will be fully engaged in the system (despite a low success rate)? I think basically what I am trying to communicate to you is that just because *you* were stupid with your money it doesn't mean that by default everyone else is or was. If you think your upline would not even blink if you went off system, then I encourage you to do so and prove me wrong because I don't believe that. Not because I am narrow minded or because I lack the ability to accept differences either. It's because I know damn well that uplines (I suspect yours as well) depend on that money they collect when you buy their motivation. I may not have ALL the information, but you don't either. I suspect you aren't aware of the amount of money one can expect from the movement of tools, functions, voice mail if you use it (If you do you're a fool because voice mail is sooooo 80's). Are you aware of a payment schedule for tool movement through your organization? If not why not? It is your business, no? Real businesses don't do things unless they know what they will be getting paid for their efforts. I have no doubt you see value in the tools. They are DESIGNED for you to feel that way. Just like a Big Mac is designed to taste good, even though it isn't necessarily the best thing for your body.

Your right not our upline, this has never been taught or said from stage at any World Wide function since I’ve been involved. I can’t speak to “numerous uplines” because I’m obviously not as all knowing as you are. I’ll never ever teach that or encourage anyone to go into debt.

RESPONSE: So you don't tell your folks how important the functions and motivation is? You didn't encourage anyone to attend all 3 Dream Nights in Alberta in a 4 day span? I'm not all knowing, but I can draw up a conclusion based upon what I know, past experience, and common sense. For example, I have heard claims by your upline that are suspect at best. I don't believe they have your best interests at heart. As far as you never encouraging people to go into debt, GREAT! Can you say you represent your upline/downline? You have no control over that, which means it could happen even if you don't agree with it. Welcome to MLM.

Quite well actually. Thing is I set that date before we even decided to have kids, funny how life can change things eh? Guess life has never given you set backs or you’ve never had failures? Life is full of changes and have I had to reset that date. The lesson is being able to reset the date or anything in life and continue to strive for it. I will achieve it and have examples from my direct sponsor and upline in succession that have done it. Did they also change some of their dates? Yeah, but they still aimed for it and reached it. If you go through life quitting after missing a goal or target you’ll end up being just that a quitter. No that’s not aimed at being an Amway IBO, that’s ANYTHING in life.

RESPONSE: I am not criticizing you meeting your goal, I'm pointing out that you didn't. I have had TONS of setbacks. Quite frankly, one of the biggest setbacks former IBO's talk about is the business you are in right now! Enjoy the irony. I have no problem with goal setting, but I would encourage you to determine what you need to do to move forward. The answer is NOT in those CD's you listen to or the seminars you go to. They are what your upline needs *you* to do so *they* can move forward in my opinion.

I’ve never said Amway needs to be your plan B or your financial woes, guess you miss read that in my post?

RESPONSE: Your tone suggests that this is your plan B. I am stating that I believe it to be the WORST plan B I have ever seen.

Good for you, your trying to impress me how?

RESPONSE: Not trying to impress you....at all. Since I'm not on a WWDB CD or speaking from an Amway stage I sincerely doubt I COULD impress you. What I was attempting to do was demonstrate that I know people who are what you are trying to be, free. None of them act like Amway people. They don't put themselves up on pedestals, and quite frankly, you would never know they were millionaires. According to a book called "The Millionaire Next Door" that is how most millionaires act. In my experience, Amway leaders put themselves up on a pedestal with false humility and feigned concern for everyone's well being.

Your right, I won’t take that bet. However one thing I’ve seen with people I know that make around 1/2 a million to a few that make millions (on paper, not cashflow. BIG difference there) is they don’t live the life I want to live. Now I’m sure you’ll be quick to defend the 12 millionaires you know, but I can tell you the millionaires here the majority of them are working long hours, probably working up north away from their families. Flying in and out. Probably have more debt as the more money you make the more you’re able to leverage. Sure being a millionaire is cool but do you have the lifestyle that I want? 99% probably not. I’d actually love to have less money but have a marriage that’s on track, I’m able to see my kids each and every day, be able to bless people with money and help out great causes (Like Easter Seals, thanks for the comments on that by the way, glad to see your well rounded with your comments on my site), and overall have a much stress free life. Sorry making millions by flying in and out of the North is not my ideal life. Or running a company where I need to manage people and pay salaries, worry about financial stresses, assets, investments, the list goes on and on and on. You can be wealthy on paper, but are you wealthy in life? That’s what matters to me.

RESPONSE: A millionaire is someone who has a NET WORTH of a million bucks. Has nothing to do with cash flow and your objection is an Amway system response. The only "millionaires" I know of with cash flow problems are athletes with poor money skills and Amway folks. Look man, the life you are chasing, in my opinion doesn't exist. Even your hero leaders keep having to spin plates to keep the money flowing. Again, you cannot disprove it any more than I can prove it because their books will never be open to you or I. Stalemate, but I'd bet $1000 I'm right. As far as not commenting on your site the way you think I should, I'm not convinced you will post comments that disagree with WWDB teachings. Hell, you even remove my website link to my name, and welcome! It's your blog, fill your boots! That's the reason though,, and obviously you have a problem with people clicking my name from your blog. Your prerogative, my explanation.

So you don't want to run a company and pay salaries and worry about having to be responsible about stuff, yet you want to be financially independent? Good Luck with that.

Oh, my mistake, I didn’t know you were the overseeing authority on what being debt free was. Just because your leveraged doesn’t mean you need poo on my being debt free. Who said you HAVE to have a house and that determines your debt level? At least I’m not tied to a house and having a hard time trying to sell it before we move to Kelowna in a few years. We will see who’s laughing when people have to re-mortgage as the interest rate goes up and the ones who maxed out what they could afford end up walking away. As for disposable income, maybe for your upline that’s how it happened but my bank account grows each month. I know you find that so terribly hard to believe, but if you could just expand that thick skull of yours you may see that SOME things are a bit different. Your NOT the overseeing authority on all things Amway or WWDB, and neither am I. However the difference between you and I is that you built it years ago and failed, I am building it now and am succeeding in many areas.

RESPONSE: Yes, indeed. We'll see whose laughing when rent prices go through the roof due to higher interest rates as well. I wouldn't define myself as leveraged because I have a mortgage. I have control over my own destiny, I would argue more so that an Amway guy. I would never rent. I like doing what I want to my house, in my house, and i don't need some landlord telling me what I can and can't do. You're all about freedom? What if some oilfield millionaire offers to buy the house you're renting from the owner? You're out on your ass scrambling for a place for your family. My bank account grows every month too man. I spend less than I earn and don't go to a non productive function every 3 months either. More time with my family for me! Screw delayed gratification when it comes to time with my wife & kids! You never know what is going to happen next week, and I choose to spend my time with them now. You have conflicting arguments when you don't want to have to be away from your family to earn a living ( One of the reasons you want to be a big Amway guy), yet you left your wife & newborn at home to go to a function. Tell me the difference.

My kids need me now, not when I try to build some rinky dink low success rate multilevel marketing buisness and then spend all my time making CD's and speaking at functions so the money keeps coming in. Does that make me selfish and not forward thinking? If I had an upline it would!

I’m not a better person because I have an Amway business, however I’ve learned quite a few great things from a lot of the personal growth books and getting around people that have a lifestyle I think is pretty decent. Amway didn’t teach me that or give me those books. Besides what’s wrong with being a better person?

RESPONSE: You forgot to add if that's why you got into it, to become a better person? A business is to make money. Period. If you aren't making money you are not succeeding in business. I know it gets difficult to remember this when you are getting love bombed, but you should try to keep that in mind. Personal growth doesn't have to come from WWDB. In fact, WWDB doesn't even get a sniff when it comes to renowned motivational companies. Why not try a proven entity like Tony Robbins? Bet your upline wouldn't like that!

Arrogant and rude, you call me that yet you’ll post your own comment on your blog to illicit discussion and page rankings. LOL wow, glad to see your actually out here to have meaningful honest conversation. Guess not, just goes to show you don’t really care and are about the page rankings and trying to spread false information from ages ago. You say I’m not worth listening to, how are you worth listening to since you don’t even build this business anymore. Its been YEARS since you did anything and yet you keep spouting off the same old year after year. It’s getting quite boring and to be honest nobody really cares what you think anymore. Go ahead continue your discussion with the SAME old people that have been posting on your site for years.
I’ll say it again as I’ve always maintained on here, I’m very honest when we take people through the process and up front with all information, costs etc… Don’t try and paint me or our organization with the same brush you had.

RESPONSE: I will post my own comment on my own blog for a couple reasons. Firstly, if you don' seem to accept being challenged and have a history of not posting contradictory things. Secondly, I've had posts you wouldn't publish and you've even turned comments off because you didn't like people calling bullshit on your claims. Your blog, your choice! I'm all about meaningful conversation, but you obviously are not since you have a problem publishing all comments, so you can hop off your high horse on that topic, Lone Ranger.

I didn't say you aren't worth listening to, I just said you aren't really in a position where your financial advice should mean anything. If what you said came out of Kevin OLeary's mouth, that means something. You just aren't in a position to demonstrate the proof in the pudding!

I don't believe my information to be false. I have stated many times that I feel Amway's products are:

1. Inefficiently distributed & expensive

2. Shipping costs are ridiculous ( I noticed a slight increase this month as well, again, nothing YOU control)

3. The motivation has long been determined to be a significant (if not the majority) of the income which funds the diamond & above lifestyle.

4. Success rates are dismal.

I'm not necessarily painting the WWDB group with a brush, I have just yet to see anything different about it. What you describe is no different than any other organization I've been a part of or read about.

I have no doubt you are honest when you approach people about this business in the hopes of getting them either sponsored or buying Amway products. The problem is I don't believe you know much about what you are defending. Just like every other IBO out there, and that's because you aren't supposed to be listening to anyone else because they are negative dream stealers. For the record, I don't want your dream. What the hell would I do with it if I got it? It's useless to me. I got a few of my own, and I don't need a CD every day or a conference 4 times a year to make sure I still have it.

You're in a controversial business. People will Google it. It's my belief that is why Amway focusses on overseas growth.

Amway IBO's....Way Smarter than the rest of us!

2011-09-17T22:04:00.002-05:00

I made another post over at Sahun the WWDB IBO. He talks about status and paycheck to paycheck and how his association makes him awesomer than the rest of us. Anyway, I know he won't be posting my response, so her is my reply to this post.

Shaun,

Let's talk about what you are saying in this article and use it with Amway in mind instead of society.

Keeping up with the Joneses is quite common in society. In Amway, buying the "tools" and attending seminars could be considered keeping up with the Joneses. If you decide you don't need those CD's, or to travel cross country to go to the next seminar, how well received would that be? Quite frankly, you could expect to be ostracized or gently chided for not following the system. Your WWDB system, by the way is by no means effective nor proven.

There are countless people who maxed out credit cards not for consumer debt, but with the encouragement of their upline. Quite frankly, there are numerous uplines who cause more harm than good. I know, I know, not YOUR upline. You have simply traded societal status for Amway status. Your choice, and I personally choose neither.

It's common knowledge that the "becoming a better person" mantra is there to cloak the fact that nobody is making the kind of money that they are expecting to make. You have numerous posts in the past year declaring your freedom in a couple months. How's that going for you? Your year could turn into 2 then 5, without ever getting any closer to your goal.

I think your financial advice is not without merit, but it's a bit rich coming from people that over promise and under deliver. What is the success rate of WWDB? I hope it's appreciably higher than Amway itself, who declare less than half of 1% ever go platinum. Yeah, those are great odds for the Plan B you are talking about. Are you truly serious? Do you expect people to think you are on to something with those dismal rates?

As far as how other people are doing, you do assume much. It comes across as arrogant and rude, which is no doubt in order to attempt to put people on the defensive rather than having a grown up factual debate on the merits of MLM and Amway in General. A debate which if based on fact and not emotion is quite easily winnable in NOT doing Amway.

You living in Alberta are actually in a populace with numerous millionaires from the oil and gas industry. I have an immediate family member who is a millionaire from the energy sector and didn't graduate from high school. Funny thing! The millionaires I know (and I know about a dozen) do not act in any way like Amway millionaires. I think it's because they don't have to prove anything to anybody but themselves. I would wager $1000 right now there are more millionaires in the energy industry alone than in Amway. Common sense would say the logical course of action is not Amway, but it's your ship! Sail it however you like!

Final thought, debt free without a house is not debt free my friend. Glad you have more disposable income to give to your upline though!

Once you BECOME financially independent you might be worth listening to. Until then.......well, whatever. 'Till then, you are just spouting off whatever is said at a seminar or on a CD. Those things are said, by the way to remind you that there is no other way than Amway. Which is bullshit. In fact, one of the worst ways in my opinion is Amway. Cutting grass and doing snow removal would be far more profitable than the VAST majority of Amway participants. It also would make one a lot less sanctimonious.

I'm glad you think that you are a better person because you have an Amway business. I doubt you started it for that, but good on ya!

I know you won't post this, so I'll just pop it over on my blog. My responses to your diatribe really illicit discussion and page rankings!

Happy weekend!

Hello Again.......

2011-09-02T22:34:00.008-05:00

Hello and welcome back! I've been pretty busy lately except for the past couple of weeks when I've been enjoying some much needed time off and took the opportunity to do a few things around the house, hang with some good friends, and got one of my eyes lasered again, since it had regressed from my surgery waaaay back when! Just so the IBO's know, I paid cash for my surgery, even though having any sort of financial acumen is impossible if you aren't listening to Amway motivational CD's.

I have a number of topics to write about, however, my first post back is a rather critical comment I posted at the blog of a current WWDB IBO who basically generalized that anyone who doesn't think Amway absolutely rules is uninformed. This also comes from someone who criticizes having a mortgage. Here's the interesting thing about having a mortgage. We bought our house 5 years ago, and had it appraised this week. Guess what? My home value has more than doubled in that time. I was likely more surprised than anyone, but there I was standing there beside myself!

I will ask you, dear and faithful Reader what you can do to get a better than 100% return on investment in the Amway world that doesn't involve the unproven motivational system? I'll let you guess at the answer. To be fair, we have done a lot of renovations and improvements to our house, but always in cash. WOW! I know not to go into debt if I don't have to and I don't even listen to motivational CD's and read the recommended books! Nor do I travel and pay money to listen to the soothsayers speak. How can that be?

To top it all off, I'm also pretty good looking with a hot wife and a great bunch of kids. Try to contain your jealousy.

I posted this comment over at Expeditions of Truth when he wrote a post about Amway & the Detroit Red Wings and since I doubted at the time it would be published, I've copy & pasted it here. Anyone is free to comment, unlike other websites.

Jesus Guthrie, you come across as a pretty pompous ass on this one

1. People not liking Amway doesn't make them ignorant. You are the first to bristle if someone challenges your opinion on liking it. Hypocrite much?

2. Just being around since 1959 doesn't mean it's good. The present Cuban government has been around since the revolution in 1959. Does that make it the best government in the world?

3. Please show just one little link from the BBB(***EDIT - I meant to write FTC....I think my point is still valid****)which states that Amway is the preferred model to follow when it comes to MLM. You can't because the BBB has never stated that. They have stated that as longas there is product selling it isn't a pyramid, which is why Amway had the 10 customer rule which in my experience was NEVER followed, and I suspect today it is seldom followed due to poor value in the products. (ie. they cost a shitload of money for no apparent reason. Don't forget the shipping too!

4. It's not old school to call Amway names and consider it a pyramid. I do both and I've been around it a lot longer than you have. I consider being gung ho about Amway brainwashed, but I don't go around like Foghorn Leghorn about it like you are in this post.

5. So the only negative is from people who are uneducated? Rather sweeping statement, yes? If it's OK, then I will just call everyone in Amway a brainwashed fool since sweeping statements are OK by your example. And Amway's image still is in the toilet. Any significant growth is NOT in North America.

6. So if you are in Amway you automatically have integrity? You really believe that? How would one know someone with integrity for certain? Are we to assume that all WWDB folks have integrity? 'Cause I know that ain't true, Chief. You should know better too, you just have lost all critical thinking skills and have over invested in this rinky dink business thinking it's your only chance at success. Bad move.

7. By your logic, I should ask someone with a financial stake in a company if it's a good company. So if my banker says I should invest in certain investments because they are good (and he makes commission by selling it to me) does that make it a good idea? It does not. The same logic can be applied to Amway man. You need to think about it. You really do.

8. What types of "benefits" can we expect to see because the Detroit Red Wings are "using" the Nutrilite vitamins? Faster? Stronger? These are elite athletes man. Don't you think if the vitamins were all they were hyped to be they would be using them already? Ironically, those millionaire hockey players will likely get a better deal on those shitty vitamins than you!

I'll let you in on a little secret and give you some excellent advice. Go off system for 3 months and see if you still feel the same way. See if your upline still loves you and tells you you are the best and on fire!

I doubt you'll post this, and that's OK I'll just post it on my blog. This one really struck a nerve with me, and I'm sure your friends have noticed a solid difference in you, not necessarily for the better either. You are progressing as most IBO's do.

You didn't post my last comment when I told you that I didn't need to be on some motivational system to spend less than you earn. Nice! Your blog, so you can do what you like! In my experience, not being open to disagreement and controlling information is a hallmark MLM trait! Check out the Amthrax blog and you'll see a case study in a person that I'm sure WWDB had speaking on their stages!

Enjoy the long weekend!

Orrin Woodward....Douchebag or Hero?

2011-05-11T17:41:00.000-05:00

I say douchebag. Since he never responds to critics, I must assume it's because he can't. I left this comment on his latest bullshit post about friends.

As usual, he won't speak to those who disagree with him.. I'll let you decide if that is courageous or not.

Have a read, but you may want to get an ice cream pail ready to barf in....

Here's the comment I left which he won't publish....As usual.

Orrin,

You are a douchebag who isn't friends with anyone unless they are spending their money on your amateur, cheap, unproven motivational bullshit.

You are such a hypocrite. You don't have the balls to acknowledge critics because you know they are right and your entire existence is built in sand...

I'm rather enjoying watching it crumble beneath you, you phoney.

TEAM is shrinking, but your ego sure as hell isn't.

Coward.

WWDB and High Horses - Debt

2011-05-05T10:37:00.000-05:00

Been busy. I'm going to be starting a series on the commonalities shared within Amway Motivational Organizations, and sharing my thoughts and beliefs for the rationale behind what is taught to IBO's. Today's topic is:

Debt

First of all, everyone needs shelter. Whether you are renting or have a mortgage, you still pay. If you are renting, you are NOT NOT NOT debt free. A mortgage paid off is debt free, but as long as you are renting, you will be beholden to someone else. They can sell out from under you, then you will be looking and hoping someone lets you rent from them somewhere else. Whether you are paying rent or a mortgage, unless you have a house paid for, you are not debt free. Saying you are doesn't make it so. Frankly, it makes one look silly and blind to facts.

Freedom while renting? Methinks not. What makes all of this particularly rich is that this is coming from leaders who would undoubtedly recommend you sign up and hyper-consume motivation from his upline if you chose to get into Amway today! Get CORE! That's the ticket to freedom!

Amway leaders likely have no problem with you going into debt in order to buy their motivation or be CORE. In fact, they are instrumental in getting you to (falsely) see that one needs to invest in seminars, CD's, meetings, and travel to make more money. This flies in the face of watching your bottom line, except for the upline it makes them a tidy sum.

I have personally heard leaders speaking from stage about how they maxed out credit cards on their trip to Amway success.

What most people would conclude if they knew the circumstances is that these motivational organizations like WWDB and Yager, Britt etc. have one very common denominator. Here it is:

They will preach about you getting out of debt but in my opinion, their reasons are to protect your disposable income so you can purchase their motivation.

Find me a financial advisor who thinks renting is better than owning.

Good advice? I don't think so.

Self serving? Quite Likely.

That's why I believe organizations like WWDB teach to get out of debt. Not 'cause it's good for the IBO necessarily.

It seems to sure pay off for the Motivational Organization.

See you soon!

A WWDB Non Truth

2011-01-26T22:38:00.005-06:00

A while back I was reading a post allegedly authored by a gung ho IBO (Hey, it rhymes!) who made the mistake of either blindly believing something that was told to him or else plain old making things up.

In his post "Reflections of Last Night" written on October 1st of last year, he claims the following about Brad Duncan:

"I honestly don’t give a rip what you may “read” from some person somewhere on the internet, if you actually get around the man, talk to him you’ll see where his heart is. Honestly he is the ONLY Crown that is still showing the plan!"

I can confirm with absolute certainty that Brad Duncan is not the only Crown actively showing the plan. I know for certain at least one other Crown who shows the plan on a regular basis. I asked the Crown directly via email, and got a response today.

So indeed, before believing some person somewhere on the internet, ask people other than your upline about factual details regarding Amway, and you may actually find out the truth.

That advice would evidently include our friend Shaun over at Expeditions of Truth.

Who told this to Shaun? Don't know. Don't care.

It's wrong. It's inaccurate. Whoever told him that is either lying or wrong. I think Shaun believed it, and I'm not being critical of him.

I just wonder what else he's been told which he believes to be absolutely 100% the truth that's not?

I suspect a lot more than just this.

I also suspect he went to all 3 Dream Nights in the Alberta area this month.

There's the possibility that he may be misled regarding the benefits of these "Dream Nights".

EDIT: Forgot to add this:

This is precisely why I put very little credence to his most recent post regarding "Trust". The overarching message seems to be, "Trust your upline, and trust it blindly. Anyone who says different than your uplink is the enemy".

That's the feeling I get from his posts anyway.

Just Sayin'....

2011-01-22T00:11:00.005-06:00

My blog is worth $1,129.08.
How much is your blog worth?

AS OPPOSED TO MY LEARNED FRIEND (go ahead and click, it's funny as hell):

My blog is worth $564.54.
How much is your blog worth?

Looks like I'm worth twice as much as "The Truth About Amway"

Wonder why that is?

a) More than 6 people visit here

b) I'm more real and relateable

c) Nobody believes the other guy

d) Just 'cause I'm that damn awesome!

Don't Start Believin'

2011-01-17T17:31:00.000-06:00

One of my most favourite songs in the world is Journey's "Don't Stop Believing'" I've always loved it and I always will love it.

Quite often in the Amway world, you are told to believe. Believe in yourself, believe in your upline, believe in your downline, believe in your product, and believe what everyone who loves Amway says.

Why? Why do you have to believe in it? Don't the opportunity, the products, and the people involved speak for themselves?

Don't get me wrong, I strongly feel in any job you need to believe in what you are doing in order to succeed. I also grew up around my dad, who is very successful with the businesses he owns. He believed in what he was doing, but he didn't go around preaching it to everyone like a braying jackass.

In Amway, we have recent examples of people saying they believe in what they are doing, and they are on their way to a much better life than those of us not in Amway.

Funny thing is, I don't think it's true. I don't believe fired up IBO's are on their way to anything better than me or you. There is simply not nearly enough evidence out there to prove that Amway provides an income which will roll in long after they decide they've had enough of whatever it is an Amway dude does.

Name me a few folks who are collecting residuals and are not reliant upon motivational income. Name them already, surely there has to be plenty! Jeez, they've even gotten to the point where they have multiple smaller rallies to have the same people pay 2 or 3 times for a seminar. It's a new tweak on making money from your group and there are people out there who actually believe that it will help them become more profitable by going to all of these events within a few hours of each other. Amazing. Like a fricking travelling wrestling show!

This recently happened in Alberta with WWDB. If they had that many people, they should be getting a bigger venue. Oh, but that would mean only being able to charge people once for a motivational rally which have yet to have been proven to produce a tangible result.

Like it or not, there is a lot of negative connotations associated with Amway. People are uncomfortable with it and that reputation is well earned. It doesn't appear to be getting any better.

The motivation is likely still making "leaders" more profit than product volume. I don't believe anyone who is under the platinum level is breaking even. At all.

But then the argument is that you are such a good person now for being in Amway. Really? That's it? That's what you believe? OK.

Oh, and I see people are still playing the same tired old song about paying FULL FROCKING RETAIL for products and putting the difference into your "business account". Nothing like paying more taxes than you need to. What a joke that is. No real business owner pays full retail for his/her own products. That's just a silly practice encouraged by uplines to present the illusion of money making.

In business, you should not be going on faith. You go on profit and PROFITABILITY. This means its worth doing what you are doing IN MONEY!!!!

Don't start believing' until PROFIT (real profit not fake profit) is happening.

Listen to the Amway Corporation.....when they say something

2011-01-10T11:28:00.006-06:00

Amway Answers....is actually starting to answer questions (carefully)

Below is a screen shot which should give pause to those who choose to blindly believe the Amway defenders online.

These are the corporation's answers regarding profitability and discipline claims made by Amway's Caped Crusader..

This is what you should listen to folks, whether you are pro Amway or not. Again, we have some guy for some reason thinking he knows better than the corporation that he's accountable to as one of it's distributors.

Would I listen to Amway? Not a chance, but then, I'm not an IBO. If you are seeking answers regarding diamonds getting kicked out or whether people make full time incomes, here are your answers that matter. Unfortunately, the ACTUAL truth about Amway seems to be difficult to come by these days due to what could be construed as obfuscation by a die hard clique.

Amway is who you allow in your theatre, in the words of another defender. Perhaps she should consider taking some of her own advice that she's eager to freely give to everyone else?

Her call. Just a suggestion. After all, one of the people she chooses to associate with could be considered deceptive in some of his statements.

So, do hundreds of thousands of people make a full time income through Amway? The corporation does NOT say so.

Have dozens of diamonds been kicked out? The corporation does NOT say so.

I'm still awaiting some answers to other questions that have been posed to the Corporation. I'll fill you in when they come.....

As always, I welcome correction!

The MLM Punisher

2011-01-09T13:08:00.003-06:00

There's a new voice out there with the not so pro Amwayer and Monaviers out there.

By the looks of his first couple of posts and the "about me" section, he has a lot to say.

So take a visit! You won't be disappointed.

For the lunatic fringe who consistently object that all the complaints about Amway can be rejected because that was a long time ago, you might want to take a visit. I would wager these practices have been going on and will be going on. Just because you don't want it to be happening doesn't mean it isn't.

I don't think many people outside Amway really believed you anyway. I would be surprised to see Bridgett Baron or David Steadson (aka IBOFB), or the rest of the usual Amway defenders to challenge The Punisher.

I would also bet that The Punisher has been to more Dream Nights than even the most die hard believin' Amway gung ho IBO.

Open Question to any IBO...Any IBO at all

2011-01-06T22:13:00.002-06:00

My questions to anyone in WWDB, InterNet, LTD etc. etc. .....

Who has built a house in cash recently based on Amway income?

Who has retired for 5 years and received consistent income based on the sale of Amway products through their group?

Show me! Make me a believer!

'Cause there hasn't been anything yet that would make me believe the things IBO's say are both achievable and consistent.

DOZENS of Diamonds have been kicked out of Amway

2010-12-28T20:09:00.003-06:00

My last post was in regards to the feeble attempts by David Steadson (aka IBOFB) in his life's mission to overcome Amway's poor reputation. Whether or not Amway deserves a poor reputation is not the issue.

What is the issue is yet another volley of ridiculous claims made by said corporate goon.

In a recent comment thread on "Married to an Ambot" he claims Amway has kicked out dozens of diamonds.

I invite him to provide the names of those dozens (that means at least 24 since dozens is plural) of Amway diamonds which have been booted from Amway by the corporation.

Or he can do it on his blog.

Let's see if he can back up his claims.

I can only think of a few. Less than half a dozen that Amway has "kicked out"

This is who people should be listening to?

I guess Amway might as well get used to their poor rep in North America when they are alloweing what I believe to be blatant lies such as this going unchecked.

The "Truth" About Amway

2010-12-27T10:17:00.002-06:00

I don't know why I continue to be surprised by the actions of Amway and people like David Steadson aka IBOFB.

I was checking up to see what Bruce Anderson was up to these days. Anyone familiar with Bruce Anderson? I'm not going to get into it here. There's places you can find out about Bruce & Wendy Anderson.

Anyway, I was only doing a half assed attempt and I stumble upon the Amway Wiki.

Do we all know who runs the Amway Wiki? Yeah, the very man who stands for the TRUTH about Amway!

With this dedication to the Truth (oh, speak, soothsayer, speak!) there was a great deal of effort to fully disclose all the truth about this Ex-Diamond in Amway.

Have a gander.

I guess there's nothing more to say according to the person who runs the Amway Wiki!

The Truth? I guess in some people's minds it is. Just goes to show the difference between accuracy and honesty.

There's a fine line and Amway's caped crusader doesn't appear to be able to distinguish either.

This is precisely why Amway should be taking control of who is defending it, and what they are saying about it. It certainly shouldn't be IBOFB aka David Steadson. This is EXACTLY what the problem is when people decide to research Amway. They get a half truth like this Wiki entry (or half lie if you like) and then feel deceived when they do find out the truth.

After going to numerous discussions and making sure people have all the "facts" about Amway, you're telling me that even 1 paragraph isn't worth being written about a frocking diamond who isn't in Amway anymore? Nothing?

At least in this Wiki post they say that Mark & Tami Crawford resigned their IBO ship.

But one of the Crawford diamonds, Don Lorencz has nothing written about why he left. Even though there's a great deal of information on why he left available online!

The guy has Google Alerts set up so he can butt in online conversations to ensure people talking about Amway all over the globe are getting the "truth about Amway" but there's not a peep about a diamond leaving? Really?

At the risk of sounding melodramatic, it could be considered lying by omission, and this is exactly the type of activity which continues to keep Amway's reputation in a downward spiral across North America. Don't get me wrong, it is deserved.

As always, I'm open to correction, but it seems like a pretty deliberate attempt to not tell the whole story.

So if you're looking for the actual TRUTH about Amway, you likely shouldn't visit a critic's site. That's nothing new, and I would be the very first to tell you I have my opinions about Amway that aren't very complimentary.

However, it's painfully obvious that the last place you should be looking for facts or truth are the places proclaiming far and wide that they possess them.

Just my opinion, and you're welcome to post yours. As always, I leave myself open to correction.

An Ode to Orrin Woodward....

2010-12-25T19:55:00.002-06:00

Another comment which will undoubtedly go unpublished. Can't be associating with people who don't see him as a deity I suppose....

So, do you still make time for people like Mark & Tami Crawford and all the other people who aren't buying your tools anymore?

Merry Christmas, hope you get everything you deserve in 2011

Growth.....or Hype?.....

2010-12-18T23:16:00.002-06:00

When going through some old posts at Expedition of Truths, I came across this post about Dream Night 2010.

There was allegedly 1100 plus people there a year ago.

This year, they are having multiple Dream nights, but only 850 people.

This makes me wonder a bit. Are the same people going to 3 Dream Nights in Alberta? Are all 3 Dream Nights sold out to 850 people each? If so, why wouldn't they just hold it in a bigger building?

I would be totally speculating (Unlike David Steadson aka IBOFB I don't feel the need to pass my theories off as facts) but I have to wonder what the truth is about Dream Night and WWDB.

Is it mostly the same people going to all 3 and there are 3 being held to generate excitement and appear as though there is immense growth happening?

I wish I knew the truth. I find myself quite often wondering what the truth is about Amway in a lot of instances. Why is that?

I don't wonder what the truth is about Wal-Mart. They sell a massive volume of goods which compensates for their lower markup.

I don't wonder what the truth is about McDonald's. They market crappy food at a cheap price quickly to kids, people in a hurry, and people on the road with not a lot of money to spend for their families to eat.

Why is it that the truth is so hard to determine about Amway?

The fact that North American Growth is no longer reported strengthens my suspicions that there's not much in the way of facts out there about Amway.

Their new blog is of little value as well.

Oh well. Just goes to show that in spite of what the lunatic Amway fringe says, things are pretty much the same as they've always been.

Nothing new there at all.

Enjoy the weekend!

An Ode to Orrin Woodward...

2010-12-15T11:58:00.002-06:00

I've left the odd message over at Orrin Woodward's blog which never seems to get published. From now on whenever I leave a comment, I'll post it here with a link to the original post.

As always, Orrin is welcome to have a discussion here along with any member of TEAM. I reaslly don't understand why Woodward, Brady, and even people in Amway have such difficulty having discussions with non-MLM'ers.

There doesn't seem to be a problem talking tough on a stage where they can be confident of applause and support, but there doesn't seem to be the same bravado out in the real world.

Here's my comment on his latest post:

"In God we trust, all others must have data."

Same goes for you Woodward. How many people (including you and your fellow shyster Chris Brady) are free and financially independent as a result of your (fake) wisdom?

I can't believe your pants don't start on fire every time you start talking.

You have NO DATA to indicate you are successful at building wealth for people.

Because you aren't, presumably. As always, I'm certainly open to correction and free discussion.

You don't appear to be.

I think it's because you are nothing more than a phoney.

Care to discuss? Thought not.

I'm going to start posting on my blog every time I comment on here with a link to your original post.

How many editions of Launching a Leadership Revolution have you released for your loyal leaders to buy now? Last I heard it was 14.

You had to revamp it 14 times? Must've been some pretty important information in those 14 revisions. So important that you forgot to include them to begin with!

Later, huckster.

It's Unfortunate

2010-11-17T15:05:00.002-06:00

Well it looks like our friend Shaun over at Expedition of Truths has decided not to allow our discussions on his Sold Out post regarding "Dream Night"(!)

My thoughts? Not surprising. This just tells me more clearly than I suspected before that a lot of the attitudes & teachings that I experienced are still prevalent today in some AMO's.

If WWDB is truly a solid and virtuous organization, why the secrecy? Why is the cost of going to these functions such a secret? Why is the cost of being "in" WWDB so secretive? I think I know why, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I just think it's strange that you wouldn't be allowed to view the costs associated with being in WWDB before deciding to do so. Not surprising, but it is disappointing.

I see Amway changing. It's slow, but it is moving in the right direction I think. However, any managerial outlook when dealing with improper behaviour is simple.

What did you know?

When did you know?

What did you do about it?

Not allowing deception is something Amway appears to have taken ownership of. They need to keep it up. I have seen things that I think are pretty sketchy which suggest Amway is the reason certain things are being done (spending lots of money on items), but no evidence supports that suggestion. It's this indirect suggestive behaviour that needs to be closely monitored and stopped when it crosses the line.

Some of Shaun's posts have concerned me with what messages he's receiving about running his Amway business and what he can expect in the future. To me, he would have to overcome practically insurmountable odds to achieve what he plans on achieving. I admire his courage to declare his dreams and hope he achieves what he wants. I just personally feel that he is pinning a lot of hope into something which seems to fall short for many, yours truly included.

At the end of the day, few people achieve notable success in Amway. Fewer yet create the walk away income that is presented in the plan. Attempts by Amway to reel in the poorly managed and controversial Motivational Organizations have been met with extreme resistance by certain leaders. Some of these people chose to walk away from Amway at high levels such as diamond, EDC, and Emerald IN SPITE of having achieved these levels.

You cannot deny that Amway IBO's and AMO leaders have by and large fallen short of being realistic as to what is actually achievable in Amway.

Bottom line: You need to be moving enormous amounts of products to an astronomical number of people to make "walk away" income in Amway. Heck, I'd argue that you need that just to make a decent annual income! Former Diamonds have said this as well. From Alberta no less!

So my question to any IBO. How's that going for you? Are you a product based business like Deb? Or are you a dream based business that mentions product movement as an aside?

Below is my comment to Shaun that he didn't see fit to post here. I find it interesting that he accuses me of having a position based on (in his opinion) incomplete facts, yet doesn't feel compelled to practice what he preaches and provide all the details himself. I do wish him well and hope that he will eventually have the confidence in himself and his business to allow dissenting opinions on his blog again.

By the way, Shaun, I'm certainly not AFRAID of Amway or WWDB. That's just a catch all phrase IBO's tend to use to save face. You thinking I'm afraid of Amway is speculation, and an absurd speculation at that. Why would it scare me? Think about it. Why would it SCARE anyone?

I criticize it because to me it's a bunch of B.S. which you happen to have staked your future on.

I also understand it....far more than you do.

You and others like you refuse to say anything in open forums because there's nothing you can say which would make sense nor further your argument to anyone even vaguely familiar with Amway or WWDB. Or any other AMO (Amway Motivational Organization) for that matter.

Your little information control operation you go going on here? That's been going on since motivation started being higher profit than Amway product sales, IMO. information control was goin on in the mid 90's, and almost every single IBO doesn't want to have open discussions on the topic, including Amway's staunchest defender, IBOFB aka David Steadson.

I wish you well. But I know how this story will probably end.

As a final note to you.....WATCH YOUR EXPENSES. I know you're spending more than you make. You're a 1000 PV'er, unless you are currently in Platinum qualification, you are most likely losing money on this.

I'm sorry you see to have gotten to the point where you feel no discussion is necessary because nothing is going to change your mind. That's a dangerous place to be financially for you, but in my opinion, it's the frame of mind your upline prefers you in.

I wish you well, but not at the expense of others.

No hard feelings.

It Really Is Sold Out!

2010-11-13T15:47:00.000-06:00

Over at Expedition Of Truths, Shaun has disclosed that "Dream Night" is really sold out. He provides a screen shot showing that it is actually sold out.

He also made it clear that because I had a few questions about "Dream Night" that he ...."engaged negative people going nowhere and wasting energy on something that doesn’t really concern them."

Really? Having questions about something and searching for answers is negative and indicative that I'm going nowhere? Wow! That's........interesting. The argument could be made that I am somewhere, and I'm working towards going somewhere else that I want to be. Just because it doesn't involve Amway or WWDB it doesn't make it any less noble. Some people may think I have a better chance of success BECAUSE it doesn't involve Amway or WWDB.

I find this to be a typical attitude commonly displayed by those involved in AMO's. People who aren't involved

- just don't get it, or

- don't have a dream, or

- can't see the big picture, or

- are too dumb to get it, or

- are negative, or

- are failures at life, or

I think wondering if motivational systems are still overcharging people does concern me because many people have been affected by that behaviour. Obviously when one is hesitant to tell people the price of tickets to "Dream Night" as well as monthly system costs there is something to my suspicion.

If your business depends upon keeping secrets until people are already in, you've got problems. If you are uncomfortable talking about the motivation costs, you may have a bigger problem.

**edit***I must point out that I appreciate Shaun making it clear that there's no way I could have actually known that this was sold out because I'm not a WWDB member. Weird how you can't see the WWDB costs until you are either a member or else a WWDB'er tells you. I would think the system would be upfront about the costs involved to anybody. Meh....

If you are recruiting people without telling them what the system costs or that it's necessary if you want to build it big, a lot of people would consider that dishonest. I'm not saying that's what Shaun is necessarily doing, but I believe it's been done by many IBO's.

Your problems may get even bigger if you try to claim these business functions called "Dream Night" to Revenue Canada as a business expense when you have no increase in product sales (not self consumption) as a result of attending these business meetings.

I left the following comment on his blog yesterday. I guess he isn't interested in his readers getting both sides of the story:

I will be adding another update so its clarified. It may serve you well to link to my post which inspired this response? Otherwise, it's just half the story. You want everyone to have the FULL details, based on what you've written, no? It would seem rather hypocritical for you yourself to not fully disclose where this all comes form, IMHO.

Your call, obviously.

**End of comment***

So that's what's going on with Dream night. It is sold out for the one night (for 850 not 1200-1300 as originally stated). A few questions remain that really shouldn't be that big of a deal but are for some reason:

1. What does it cost to attend and what do you get for the cost of a ticket?

2. Are people in Alberta going to all 3 Dream Nights? If so, why?

3. Is there an increase in product sales after attending these functions?

I do wish Shaun well. No hard feelings.

Sold Out!

2010-11-10T06:56:00.006-06:00

***UPDATE***

Dino Baskovic from Amway is on the case. I'm curious top see what the Corporation's stance is on this

I was reading over at Expeditions of Truth on a post created on November 6th in which the following claim is made about Dream Night.

"Well Dream Night Tickets went on sale Thursday and within 60 minutes the event which holds I believe 1200 to 1300 people was sold out."

That sounded really suspicious to me (I'm quite certain nobody gets turned away at these events) so I went over to the World Wide Dream Builders website. I also wanted to see if I could determine the ticket prices, but you have to be an IBO to do so. I didn't find the ticket prices, but I did come across a pretty compelling view on the functions being held January 5th, 7th, and 8th. It would appear that you can still buy tickets for these events, all of them. Check out the shot I took on Nov. 9th at the top!

So who is going around saying that these events are sold out? Upline? WWDB themselves? Are they really sold out? I have no answers to any of these questions. If I knew who to ask, I would. Alas, I am not allowed to have my comments published over at Expedition of Truths anymore.

All I know is that Dream Night appears to be happening in Edmonton on Wednesday Jan 5th, then Friday, Jan 7th. Then Saturday Jan. 8th it's being held again in Calgary.

I also have a sneaking suspicion (I could be wrong) that all three events will be attended by primarily the same people since Calgary is only a few short hours from Edmonton.

I wonder if you can get a discount on the ticket prices when you attend all 3 events?

Looks like the trip will be well worth it for whomever is speaking! I wonder if the keynote speakers are the same for all 3?

I hope they are going to change things up a bit for each show. Could get fairly repetitive otherwise.

David Steadson.....Wrong Again

2010-11-05T12:41:00.002-05:00

I have been having exchanges with Amway's Caped Crusader, IBOFB. I know he tries to put spin control on everything Amway, but this last go round sent it right over the top.

At Corporate Frauds Watch in a comment thread on a post about signing up other IBO's as opposed to actually retailing, he first of all says that being an IBO doesn't make you a business owner......Yeah. I'll let you think about that for a while.

He says this presumably to set up his next unintelligent statement, to wit:

"If we ignore the fact that, virtually by definition, if you are selling to another Amway business then it's likely a wholesale sale, if your selling to an Amway IBO who is not operating a business, then "retailing" to them is clearly covered by "selling products"

Uh-Huh. So he's saying that someone who isn't actively building a business but buys products can be considered a retail sale to his upline. In spite of the fact that they are IBO's.

This sounded like B.S. to me, so I emailed Karen O'Neil and asked her what she thought of that. Here's her answer:

"Rocket,

I believe your question refers to Rule 4.22, the Customer Volume Rule. The answer is no. Only sales to non-IBOs can qualify as retail sales under Rule 4.22.

Karen O'Neill
Rules Administration"

So this tells you how intelligent David Steadson is even when he tries to sound smart. Where is this going to end? I mean sincerely, Amway has more problems BECAUSE of what this guy is doing. Not to mention the fact that Amway themselves seem to have had enough of IBOFB's antics and have created a website for people to have real answers for questions about Amway.

This is a step in the right direction. A website run by the corporation for genuine questions about the Amway business will do far more than David Steadson and his ilk responding to Google Alerts all over the web and just pissing people off with their diatribe. If Amway is truly wanting to move forward after the Pokorny Suit, then they need to stop having childish antics, such a IBOFB's promoting of Amway.

Amway paid a lot of money in the lawsuit, and to me, it seems to clearly say that they accept responsibility for their lack of direction on how to deal with what are (in my opinion) the issues of Amway:

1. Lack of retailability with Amway products due to unreasonably high prices

2. Lack of control over the Tools Business

I like to think Amway is going to get real here soon. I really do.

Their first step should be to reel in people damaging their brand even more. Not me, and not other critics. We talk about our experiences, and I think they're all legitimate.

What I find most entertaining about this is the fact that IBOFB initially thought the lawsuit was poorly done and didn't have a chance of surviving.

Looks like Amway disagreed. That's all that really matters, isn't it?

Go build your Amway business David. Your little social engineering project has failed. Anyone can see that.

Amway has had to change. It's slow, but I believe this is going to make it happen. It's not because of Steadson's efforts.

It's in spite of them.

Let me ask you this......

2010-11-01T11:37:00.002-05:00

If someone called you up asking if you would listen to a business plan on how to become their customer, would you be interested?

You'd get to pay generally more for stuff you are already buying!

According to some, if you sign up as an IBO, then just buy stuff for yourself, that's considered a retail sale for your upline!

Makes sense! All right, now get out there and get free!

Aww, isn't that nice......

2010-10-31T11:03:00.005-05:00

Looks like Amway and Amway Corp., MonaVie, TEAM, Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, Tim Marks, and other parties have reached an agreement.

Of course, it's confidential as is pretty much everything Amway does with their disputes.

I'm sure the secrecy clause was done by Amway and it was agreed to because everyone likely can't afford to spend what Amway could on this. Something tells me his overpriced purple juice isn't blasting out the doors as much as he'd like. Meanwhile, Amway has their overseas business they can depend on.

I think it's nice that they've reached an agreement and the nonsense has stopped, but the asshole part of me says Amway does their level best to keep everything secret because they have much to hide.

If they "won" this dispute would you think they would trumpet it far and wide that they OWN any downline you recruit and if you leave, the downline stays?

Again, just too many unanswered questions about this outfit called Amway. If you are truly an INDEPENDENT business owner, it should make you wonder. How can such a huge decision remain secret from the other IBO's? This is stuff that could really come into play for almost anyone!

If you are an Amway IBO, then you SHOULD be wondering WTF?

How will that effect you if you decide that the products are overpriced and the Corporation is gouging you and you decide to look at other companies with your people?

I guess what it means is you either keep on keepin' on, or else you decide this is a bad business to be involved with and quit.

Quick Questions about FED

2010-10-24T10:16:00.002-05:00

How many people are going to be free because of the information they learned this weekend at Free Enterprise Day?

What did they learn that will make them move enough products to be free?

How much did it cost them?

How long will it take to re-coup that expense?

What did they learn about operating a business that they didn't know before?

IBO's, you're welcome to chime in here if you like. THese are all very valid questions that any legitimate business owner would ask themselves.

Coming Soon!

2010-10-09T07:26:00.002-05:00

More commentary by the Rocket.

In the meantime, enjoy Anna Banana's blog. Obviously WWDB is a whole lot more of the same. My experience is dismissed as outdated. No it's not. My experience is pretty much the same as Anna's husband. Don't call it outdated because it's not.

or listen to an Interview with Eric Scheibler from about a year ago. Whether you are an IBO, Ex IBO or a curious observer, give it a listen. The dude knows what he's talking about, and makes very compelling statements which are very revealing about the reality of the Amway business and his experiences.

I'll leave you with this. The more things change the more they stay the same. There is ample evidence out there which suggests Amway and the AMO's are still operating much as they always have.

If you are truly a business person, you will take in ALL information, both good and bad. If you're an Amway only type business owner, then don't pay attention to dissenting opinions. I think it's a mistake, but hey! You're free to do what you like.

See you soon.

Where Is Amway Now?

2010-07-29T12:08:00.004-05:00

I'm reading with a great deal of interest about the oil spill near Battle Creek, Michigan. I did a quick Google map check and learned that Battle Creek is a little over an hour away from Grand Rapids. I haven't come across anything that Amway has said or done about the recent Michigan Oil Spill

What I'm really surprised about (sort of) is the lack of any public response from Amway. There's been a concerted effort in the past 5 years by Amway to try and improve their (incredibly decimated) image. They continuously seek recognition for things they do for the environment and people, both internationally and domestically.

On top of that, they make a specific point of making sure everyone knows they are using alternative sources of power to help the environment!

If Amway has actually done anything about this, then they don't appear to be using their regular PR programs they have in place.

There's pictures all over the news of Canada Geese walking around covered in oil. I can't help but wonder if a few truckloads of LOC wouldn't help clean up the wildlife and contaminated plant life? After all, according to Amway it cleans away everything, but harms nothing.

With Amway's reminders about how great they are at organizing volunteers, you'd think they would be taking up a leadership role in helping clean up this unfortunate mess. They could help the other folks who have chosen to be part of the solution and organize a response.

I guess I'm just confused about why Amway hasn't taken the opportunity to jump all over this and be part of the solution of a major problem less than 100 miles away from them!

I find it strange that a company that makes mention of all the buzz words about environmental stewardship doesn't seem to even acknowledge what some are calling the biggest oil spill in the history of central USA!

Maybe Amway Global means that they need to focus all their good deeds in parts of the world they will receive their greatest return on the good will they are so vocal about providing.

Please Note, I'm certainly not forgetting that Enbridge needs to get their shit together and get this mess cleaned up asap!

But I would've thought that Amway would have done more. I'm sure Michiganders would be more disappointed than I.

I guess cleaning up oil spills isn't as sexy as making walking paths. Meh.....

What Rocket's been doing..........

2010-07-24T12:33:00.003-05:00

I'm not a construction guy. At all.

In fact, Mrs. Rocket has frequently pointed out the numerous tools I own that seemingly have very little wear & tear. When we bought our home a few years ago, we gutted it, and put in all new flooring, kitchen, bathroom, fixtures....everything with the help of contractors of course!!!!

The walls were down to the gyproc, and the floors were torn up. Everything old was gone. Since then, I have re shingled my roof, made a new bedroom in our basement out of my old workshop (We needed a fourth bedroom due to the addition of the Pocket Rocket). We actually had to cut a hole into our basement to put in a window, and at the same time we did dome major utility upgrades.

Everything we've done until now has been practical, not fun if you can dig that? Don't get me wrong, love our home now even more, but the stuff we'd done wasn't just for the hell of it.

Early this year, I received a promotion at work, and my stress level from my previous position to this one went up incredibly. I have a lot more headaches and personnel issues to deal with now, and I also stopped smoking cigars by accident (which is another story completely).

Well, obviously with the new addition as well, there was a lot going on in my life and I needed another outlet which wouldn't take me away from my family like fishing, running, or cycling would. Enter my great idea.............

Here's the top floor. It's 15 feet up!

Here's how you get up & down

Here's a side view where you can see everything!

The rope you see hanging left of the slide is a bucket and pulley system to transport food, toys, beer maybe.....

So, that's what I've been doing. Hope the rest of you are enjoying the weather. Just have a question for anyone at all out there:

Why is a tool consumption level recognized as any sort of accomplishment?

Everybody's Favorite Diamond!!!!!

2010-07-12T17:58:00.003-05:00

I stumbled across a Canada AM piece with Craig & Kara Loupelle featured. Remember them? The folks that had quite the interesting trip to diamond according to their former housekeeper/babysitter/nanny.

The Canada AM video doesn't give any indication that they are still independently wealthy, in fact, an article in Canadian Family seems to suggest that they are both out of Amway completely!

Here's the link to the video of them appearing on Canada AM. Check it quick before it's gone! Looks like Craig has lost a bit of weight! Good for him.

I guess being a diamond in Amway isn't all it's cracked up to be, since Kara has a part time job in a retail store.

Looks like the Loupelle's will have a hand making ends meet as product testers! Kara is taken with her new washer & dryer, and Craig likes the dishwasher given to them! I wonder if Amway would jump at the chance for the Loupelle's to be their product testers?

Congrats to Craig & Kara for being Canadian Family's Ultimate Family Testers!

I Have a Friend....

2010-04-03T10:35:00.003-05:00

I would consider him one of my best friends. He was involved in Amway for 5 years, then in Monavie for 1 year.

He's not in either one anymore, but he isn't angry and doesn't consider himself a failure. He reached a significant level in Amway (when I say significant level, I refer to Q-12 Platinum and above, not a low level pin like David Steadson aka IBOFB).

While he was active in the business, he was committed as could be. He went to the meetings, was on system, and did whatever it took. If anyone could build the business in North America, I truly believe it would have been him. He's a great man, and a fantastic human being in general. I like him.

Since he discovered who the Rocket is, he's asked a number of questions about my experience, and I in turn have asked him questions about his experience with Amway and being a part of Monavie, as well as TEAM.

There will be more about this in future posts to come, but the one thing that will stay with me is when he told me how he felt when he threw out his TEAM CD's. He looked at the huge pile and mentally added up the value, and did a mental head shake.

He also spoke of how utterly devastating the Dateline NBC report on Quixtar & Amway was. It was nice to hear a very frank commentary from someone. It was the first time I heard from anyone involved just how much that hurt the business.

I've told him my views (I think he already knew them) and he understands why I feel the way I do. In fact, I think he agrees with my opinions to a point.

He is my friend and I've always liked him despite the fact that he was involved in something I have a personal problem with.

I look forward to sharing what he wants me to share about his experience. If you have any questions for a former higher pin Amway IBO who left with TEAM, and then left TEAM and Monavie, drop a comment. I'm sure he won't mind.

I'll create posts answering any questions you have about Amway and TEAM from his perspective.

I think that would be nice, don't you?

Duplication? I'll pass on this one

2010-02-28T18:34:00.002-06:00

I came across the video below. Looks an awful lot like Larry Winters to me!

Keep buying tools from Larry, that ball park food isn't cheap. Not sure what bypass surgery goes for these days either.

Be proud Amway people , Be proud.

Been Busy

2009-12-12T19:30:00.002-06:00

A real leader.....

2009-10-18T01:29:00.000-05:00

Wouldn't have to ask for votes

Where are the Amway critics?

2009-10-17T11:49:00.003-05:00

Recently, David Steadson aka IBOFB made an appearance over at the QBlog Forum. Believe it or not, Mr. Steadson actually got me to thinking about things over a couple of days. Other than the usual spinning and PR tactics, one paragraph really grabbed me:

"Amway North America is currently growing substantially. Outside of the TEAM exodus in 2007/2008, Amway North America grew substantially in 2008 as well. There are 500-1000 new platinums every year and many new diamonds and above. Contrary to your claims, business is going well, and contrary to your claims, Amway has done a lot to address problems, as evidence by the fact there's virtually no new "critics".

First of all, where would one find this substantial growth? Has Amway released those statistics? Are there really a "substantial" number of new people in Amway?

As far as the 500 new platinums and above, that may very well be, but does this take into account overseas growth and transfer that over to North American businesses? You could have a guy in Canada who immigrated from India, and sponsors his friends back in India, but nobody else in Canada, yet still attains a platinum pin.

I guess what I'd like to know is if you can realistically expect to build a "substantial" business in North America with only North Americans in your group?

If someone were to say it's a common occurrence, I reject that. Not everybody has large families across the Atlantic where Amway hasn't had a chance to shoot itself in the foot yet.

So taking that into account, I really don't think the Amway business is going well.

I also don't think Amway has done anything to address the problems, although the heat does seem to be off a little now, compared to 2 years ago.

As far as there being no new critics, I would have to agree with Amway's staunchest defender. There really aren't, although that's hardly any of Amway's doing, and despite what his ego might think, it's not Mr. Steadson's doing either.

Wanna know what I think?

There's not many new critics because people aren't getting involved. They get prospected, they do a bit of research, and they simply don't do it!

C'mon, you can't tell me that recruiting of people in North America is up. If it was, Amway would be falling all over themselves (and so would David Steadson) telling everyone about it.

Pretty hard to have a bad experience in Amway when you don't get into Amway.

Make no mistake about it, the lack of new critics is because people now know more of the information the leaders (possibly Amway as well) didn't want them to know, and they choose not to get involved.

When you don't get involved, you don't spend more on products than you did before, and you don't spend thousands in useless travel to hear an egomaniac tell you his life story that nobody outside the room gives a shit about.

In short, you don't have a bad experience in Amway anymore because their reputation is so in the toilet that nobody gets involved to have a bad experience. Hence, no new critics.

No growth in North America either.

There aren't many new critics because people don't sign up. Pretty tough to have a bad experience when you're smart enough not to participate in the first place.

Thanks IBOFB. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

I've been travelling extensively the past month, so I haven't had the time to update. Got a new computer too, so I'm learning a new way of doing things.

Cheers!

Amway, David Steadson, and the 50 Year Argument (did you get your Google Alert David?)

2009-09-19T10:56:00.005-05:00

One of the things that the lunatic fringe defending Amway seems to do is harp on the fact that Amway has been around for 50 years so it's gotta be good.

Being in business for 50 years has been done by lots of companies big and small. Bottom line is, you need to have a reason for people to want to do business with you, and being around for 50 years isn't necessarily a good reason. You need to have something compelling people to want to do business with you.

How does this translate in the Amway business?

In North America, the Amway name has been dragged through the ditch plus is the subject of relentless ridicule in many circles. In my humble and informed opinion, this is because Amway was complicit to a number of abuses going on with unjustifiably high prices, as well as the motivational tools business which Amway did (and I personally think continues to do) nothing about.

Amway may be a good business across the Atlantic. I have no experience with it there. All I know is that the practices seem very familiar, and it didn't end well in North America for Amway. Furthermore, I believe Amway is continuing to decline on this continent, which is why they are investing so heavily overseas, hoping against hope that their reputation won't precede them.

That's why they've drastically changed their mantra about paying advertising money to their distributors. I can't watch a football game without seeing an Amway commercial! Anyone who I've seen respond to the commercials laughs because they think Amway is "a scam".

Point is, after 50 years, it's not much more than a running joke in North America among the vast majority of the populace.

In my opinion, it's going to take less than 5 years to have that same rep in the east.

50 years in business won't stop the truth from coming out. Moving your problems to other countries won't help either.

Fix the problem, or you'll run out of quitters sooner than later.

Just my opinion Orrin......

2009-09-14T20:36:00.002-05:00

I posted the following comment to Orrin regarding his "Total Success" post. It seemed like a lot of typing to just not get it published, so I'll publish it myself. Go ahead and watch the video. Interesting.

Orrin,

I see how you nicely gloss over the issue as though you actually address it.

Fact of the matter is I don't care about the money you and your brethren make, and you assume much when you think I'm jealous.

Fact of the matter is, it's my personal belief that you make most of your money selling motivation (which you refuse to call motivation, instead it's leadership).

You can't sell leadership in MLM style and therefore need a product, which is a $40 bottle of juice. In my opinion, this is how you make it legal for you to continue selling motivation.

The problem the critics have is the lack of transparency you and your "leaders" live by, and in my opinion, count on.

For instance, what does the TEAM organizational structure look like? How did it look in Amway? Exactly.

If people knew the real truth, you may find yourself applying for a job again.

I particularly admire how you haven't got the jam to deal head on with the critics and how you continue to try and control information.

If I'm wrong, please let me know. Unless you are willing to show the compensation plan in the "leadership" business, my mind is made up.

The fact that you won't share the compensation plan within TEAM for selling motivation speaks volumes.

I'm doubting you will have the nuts to post this, because again, you don't post anything contradictory to what you profess. What kind of leadership doesn't allow for open and honest discussion?

Interesting.

This is Funny.....

2009-09-11T22:17:00.000-05:00

Michman turns David Steadson/IBOFB into a bit of a Tex!

LOL

If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts.

If morality is on your side, pound on morality.

If neither is on your side, pound on the table.

Bravo

That Weird Al Yankovic.....

2009-09-11T16:18:00.001-05:00

He sure can sing....

ENJOY!

Special thanks to the Youtube user "Quixtarisascam"

Don't you Just Love........

2009-09-07T17:35:00.001-05:00

People who can tell you what works, even if they aren't able to do it themselves?

I'm talking about our good friend David Steadson (aka IBOFightBack) of course.

David, feel free to prove me wrong, and that you are actually successful in Amway. Otherwise, I've got to believe the information I have at hand, which suggests you are not currently any sort of "leader" level in Amway.

IBOFightback aka David Steadson does it again

2009-09-05T11:42:00.000-05:00

Well, it's happened again. This post is a feeble attempt by Steadson to suggest Amway is a profitable business venture.

Joecool has written an excellent article debunking this pathetic attempt at making Amway appear acceptable, and he beat me to the punch with the more realistic facts.

David Steadson makes himself look like quite the ass to anyone who knows what's going on in Amway with his closing statement summarizing his post

"Amway IBOs get all their products free plus extra cash!"

If that were true, Amway would be A LOT more popular in North America than being the perpetual running joke that it is. Just think about it for a minute, and let the absurdity sink in.

"Amway IBOs get all their products free plus extra cash!"

Why Amway allows this guy to perpetuate fallacies about their business I'll never know, unless they're in cahoots with him. They deny it, so that can't possibly be the case.

To top it all off, the best information that the critics have right now is that David Steadson is a nothing 100PV IBO. Sure, maybe he did have a platinum business at one point. If that's the case, why not do it again?

I just get a kick out of how Steadson is always saying how easy it is, and how he suggests people who question the high prices and business model are injudicious.

Funny thing is, I could match Steadson's level in Amway within a week just by buying products! An 100 PV expert on the matter it does not make him.

I do hope Amway allows him to continue, it makes it easier to see what the business is truly all about.

I've got quite a bit going on in my life right now, and I apologize for the lack of posts. See you soon!

No Change! No Transformation! No Nothin!

2009-07-17T11:25:00.005-05:00

For the past little while, there really hasn't really been much to talk about in Amway. Oh, sure, they've got some soccer star I've never heard of wearing the Amway uniform, but I only know that because I read about it on the Super Du Blog.

If anyone can fill me in on how a local soccer player make the opportunity better for IBO's globally, could you drop me a line? Yeah, yeah, I get the fact that Amway has their name on her jersey, but really, how is this helping IBO's make money?

In Canada, everybody knows about Tim Hortons. This is a company that believes in supporting local sports, and provides funding for kids to play hockey, baseball, ringette, among many others. They provide jerseys for the kids and sponsor tournaments and prizes. Everyone who's child benefits from Tim Hortons generosity and corporate sposorship programs usually goes to Tim Hortons after the event for coffee, sandwiches, donuts, etc...So it is great for everyone. The kids whose family may not have had the resources to pay for the kid, gets to play.

Compare this to Amway's program. Unless you are already in Amway, you're not going to go and buy a case of LOC because a soccer player has the name on the uniform. Furthermore, if the prices aren't any good, people aren't going to buy the products, unless,..........wait for it..................they're already IN AMWAY!!!

Do you get what I'm saying? Unless people are already in Amway, who really cares? Amway doesn't really benefit because if people do any kind of research about Amway they inevitably run into people that are doing horrific damage to their name. Even if they didn't know what Amway was before, they likely (if they're smart) aren't going to dive into something so controversial.

Speaking of people wrecking Amway's name, I see the perpetual paladin of Amway has crawled out of the confines of his lair to comment on a website he doesn't run! Unfortunately for him, he got called on his bullshit propaganda once again, and has hastily retreated to the confines of his ilk.

It's funny because he started off posting on everyone else's blog, and then started his own. (Look for yourself, it's not normal behaviour) numerous blogs defending Amway for no reason other than he feels it's his duty as a, what, 3-400 PV IBO?

The funny thing is, IBOFB is mirroring the problem leaders in Amway.

What do you mean, Rocket?

What do I mean? Are you daft? What were things the problem leaders were (and in my opinion still are) doing? Telling people that they knew best, and that people who disagreed with their mindset were idiots.

To top it all off, he is also copying their standard operating procedure when it comes to the negative about the business. He has all his blogs and website, and he rules the roost in there. And welcome! It's his private domain, he can do whatever he wants! That's not where this thought is headed.

Point is, he's taken a play form the kingpin playbook, which already isn't working. What page is that? Information control.

Eric Janssen had Amway's number years ago, which is simply that information cannot be controlled anymore. IBOFB seems to have overlooked that, in spite of his obviously superior aptitude.

In any event, IBOFB continues to attempt information control, and he will continue to fail. It's not a shot at him personally, it's just an obvious fact. How is he controlling information?

- He doesn't allow dissenting opinions which would lean an observer away from his viewpoint. Sound familiar?

- He doesn't comment very often at places he can't control ie. other blogs. Sound familiar? How many leaders speak for real businesses? Once the bullshit is shoveled away, IBOFB and Amway leaders the bail conversation. Not being mean, it's just how I see it.

- He attempts clever insults at people who disagree with him, in an attempt to make them appear intellectually inferior. Again, familiar?

So I guess my point is, nothing has changed! Amway's North American reputation is still seriously screwed. It's only a matter of time before it deteriorates further in the rest of the world, I get hits here from India and the Philippines. The world's too small to expect these tactics to be effective.

Hey Amway, you wanna improve your name? Get the jackass off the internet. Be transparent. Do the right thing.

If you want people to think you are a moral and ethical company, then BE a moral and ethical company.

And start putting your failed PR hacks on a leash.

David Steason misleading again?

2009-07-13T21:48:00.001-05:00

Or maybe the opportunity is not what they were told and they felt misled.

Lots of people with jobs could travel with their parents for a couple months, it's not a lifestyle confined to business owners.

That Orrin Woodward

2009-06-22T16:48:00.000-05:00

He's one hell of a copy and paster

Hey Orrin, do you have any of your own thoughts to add? For all the reading and speaking you do, one would think you have the occasional independent thought.

I doubt it'll get posted.

Gee, I wonder

2009-06-21T17:32:00.000-05:00

If people have overstocked?

Looks like Monavie is going to be the next MLM train wreck.

I really don't like this guy....

2009-06-18T21:33:00.001-05:00

Funny Orrin,

You are one of the people ENCOURAGING people to spend money they don't have on useless motivation that they don't need.

You piss and moan about excessive spending, yet you don't mind if people max out credit cards traveling to your little ego shows.

You're such a hypocrite.

Piss off. you're an asshole.

Who Is Brian Herosian?

2009-03-26T20:30:00.002-05:00

***Update***

Scott Larsen has posted a portion of the video on YouTube!

ENJOY!

Update #2 Here is the original video

Well, based on my last post, I guess what needs to be established is who Brian Herosian is. It isn't very obvious based on the video, but Mr. Herosian is an EDC in the Amway business. I found it interesting how he never spoke of Amway or Quixtar, just Herosian Enterprises Limited.

First of all, he was a defensive back in the Canadian Football League. Nothing wrong with that at all, that's for sure. Personally, I admire all the athletes in the CFL, because for the most part, they are blue collar athletes who play for the love of the game. There are no multi million dollar contracts in the CFL, and if you are one of the elite, you are making a quarter million a year or a bit more. He was playing in the CFL before I was born, but he obviously was a professional athlete. I respect that tremendously.

It would appear that Brian Herosian is still serious about being an athlete, as he is shown on Pro-Fitness Training's website.

I first learned about Brian Herosian back in July of 2005 when a commenter on Quixtar Blog's Backbone Project named Gary spoke of Brian Herosian. His comment is near the bottom of the page, about a year after the post.

According to Gary, Brian Herosian once told him that "this business is just tough enough to keep the wimps out"

I did a bit of digging back then, and I found another commenter who gave this address for Herosian's website, along with the user name of BBH and password of EAGLE. Go ahead and check it out. Lots of interesting stuff there, although, I must admit, it isn't very current.

His new website is much nicer, but password protected. If anyone would care to share the password, feel free to drop me a line. Email address is to the right.

According to Amway Wiki, Mr. Herosian is an EDC who lives in Headingly, Manitoba. It's a community just outside of Winnipeg.

So really, what was the point of all this? I dunno, I suppose it was just to demonstrate how many of the same one liners are spoken about. It was also interesting how some principles of persuasion are used. He used uncertainty to instill fear in people about losing their job when he talks about loding his job. He also attempted to take it away near the end by not being able to promise them anything, and insinuating that some people don't get through the interview after the process.

I'm not sure where the 1 out of every 100 graduates retires wealthy tidbit comes from. I would LOVE to see the study which supports that claim.

Again with the dreams though. 7-10 hours a week for the next 2-5 years to make a 6 figure income. Doesn't take skill or talent, just a dream. You have to change your thinking though.

This is all sounding very familiar though. Paradigm, networking, distribution, Robert Kiyosaki, change the way you think, system in place, direct fulfillment, auto replenishment, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The difference here is that Amway rules knows about this. I'm sure the video and website will soon be gone, but what happened?

What would other EDC's who are doing this learning if the outcome for breaking the rules about income claims is not known?

How can Amway stop this? Anyone? Anyone?

Does Amway want to stop this? You'd think they would, since this is a case study of why their reputation is where it is.

What can Amway do, if this would in fact be considered a rules violation? In my opinion, the income claim of 6 figures in 2-5 years with 7 - 10 hours a week of effort is misleading, and not typical. The fact that Amway isn't even mentioned also bothers me.

So. That's Brian Herosian.

The Video in question

2009-03-25T10:42:00.004-05:00

Here it is.

I couldn't embed it on this blog, but I believe it will be removed soon as someone may have told the Amway rules department. Get it while it's hot!

More about Brian Herosian later. I don't know how long it will be on Youtube, but there's ways of revisiting it if need be. Curious as to what you think!

***Update***

5:58 to 6:08 is where he makes the statement I find hard to believe. It's unfortunate that nobody will ever know the consequence, if any for this type of behavior.

Amway lies...Still Going On?

2009-03-20T11:38:00.000-05:00

Are outlandish claims still being made by IBO's, and more specifically, leaders of the front line IBO's?

If so, what should happen if they are caught doing it?

I am going somewhere with this, but not today.

Just wanted to hear what you think.

You don't hear much about what happens to people like Greg Fredericks, and others who have been... let's just say it... lying.

I've stumbled across something that is really disturbing to me, and I am quite frankly surprised that someone would have the audacity to believe that it's acceptable. Especially given this person's tenure and pin level in the business, yet there it was, for all prospects to misinterpret.

Obviously this person has absolutely no fear of repercussions from the Amway Corp. rules dept.

What should Amway do when leaders, no front line ABO's are continuing on with these misleading claims? To wit:

"Would it be worth taking7-10 hours a week for the next 2-5 years to make $10,000 or more a month?...."

Would you believe that people are still saying this? After all the exposure and bad press Amway has gotten, high level leaders are STILL saying this!

I want to give Amway the benefit of the doubt, I really do. I just feel that it's pretty obvious nobody takes Amway's rules very seriously, and have no fear of consequence.

Quite frankly, I think this is going on all the time, it's just going on behind password protected accounts that prospects only can enter.

My opinion? Make the rule breaker punishment known. You won't catch people violating the rules very often, just like criminals. Nobody gets caught every time they break the law. People who do it over and over again eventually do. So you know when you see a person doing it, it's simply not the first time. That is why it is so important to denounce these things when you find it. Otherwise, it's just talk.

I'll be back. Stay tuned. I have a link to this to prove it.

The Lone Ranger (David Steadson) strikes again

2009-03-07T13:26:00.004-06:00

Sorry for the unscheduled holiday, I've been in many parts of North America over the past month, and have really not had much time to create a good post. Things have settled down now, and I'll be more consistent.

I left this comment based on a post from David Steadson about how he was saving Amway again.

Once again, our hero makes the mistake of thinking he is all knowing. I find it interesting how his arrogance always seems to bubble to the surface, as in this case. In his post on his own blog, he pretty much thinks that because he had the author modify the article, he's correct by default.

Again, he is most certainly welcome to think anything he likes, just as I am welcome to think anything I like.

If this guy isn't doing this for personal gain, he needs to get a life.

Here's my comment I left on his blog, I gave him about a day to post it, and it's clear he's not interested in having a conversation with people who can throw barbs back, and are just as knowledgeable of the topic at hand. It's also clear that he doesn't want a public conversation when he's at risk of being exposed as no smarter than anyone else.

"Whether or not it's the death of professional journalism is very much up for debate.

However, journalism has a responsibility too. In Canada, the CBC has been government funded for many years and is VERY left leaning in it's journalism. In reality, it's more of a propaganda machine than a news source, yet it is Canada's National Broadcasting Corporation.

Now, that paragraph about the CBC is subjective, true, but there are enough people who feel that way that it's not a conspiracy theory, nor is it impossible to provide examples which support both opinions.

My opinions of Amway are also subjective, and I am well aware that there are examples supporting both viewpoints. So are yours.

I can't read Swedish, but I read your comment in English. Nothing I haven't heard from you before, but just because he retracted it doesn't necessarily mean you are right and he is wrong.

You would have to concede that there is much, much more to Amway, good and bad, than can be explained in a few posts.

Maybe he didn't feel like investigating it further after seeing the reams of material available to sift through. Maybe he doesn't care enough to refute you.

You seem to insinuate that he was incorrect, and that because you were policing him corrected a (perceived) error, and there is nothing wrong with Amway.

Therefore, his thoughts have no merit.

Untrue, and rather egotistical.

The point? Everyone can equally express opinions now. That's bad for Amway.

Obviously people weren't getting what they wanted from "credible" news sources, and went out to put their teeth in the soil, so to speak, on the WWW to get the straight goods on Amway.

People that want to know won't listen to just the CBC, or Wall Street Journal, or you, or me.

They will take all of it in, then judge for themselves after developing a global opinion based on all the information they receive.

That is Amway's problem. And yours, evidently."

David Steadson - Bad Reputation, or self inflicted slander?

2009-02-08T13:12:00.003-06:00

I read with great amusement over at the Amway Talk that our fearless David Steadson is throwing out vague threats regarding suing people for using his name, and giving their opinions of him.

First of all, Michman pointed out exactly what I was thinking....Wouldn't you have to show how you've been damaged? Steadson responds by saying that he would call people whom he has not gotten some work for to see if that was the case. Fair enough, but it's not like they are obliged to tell him anything.

Secondly, maybe Steadson was wanting too much money, wasn't as qualified, etc... I know that may be hard for Mr. Steadson to accept, but I'm quite certain there's people out there who are just as good, if not better at his job than him.

Thirdly, maybe they saw the smarmy know-it-all attitude of David Steadson online, and decided they aren't interested in associating with someone like him. Maybe they thought his style wouldn't benefit the company.

One only need to check a few posts of his while he spoke to others, and the manner in which he did so. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of an open mind or open to discussion.

And lastly, the most obvious of all. Maybe, just maybe, some of the decision makers at the internet firm he applied to get a contract with had a bad experience with Amway! God knows there's enough people out there who have. Would you hire someone who goes to superhuman lengths to defend Amway if you don't like it? Maybe they don't like how he's tried to minimize the problems in Amway. Maybe they don't like the fact that he keeps bringing up Joecool visiting a sex site. Maybe they don't like the fact that he extremely osteperous to people who don't share his views!

MAYBE!

Maybe some of the people at the firm hate Amway, and therefore, didn't want someone so obsessed with saving it's online name as part of their company! Maybe they didn't like his constant spinning of the facts. Can you imagine being his supervisor and trying to get a straight answer out of him? Good Luck!

Once again, David Steadson is taking editorial liberties with what is true and what is not.

Fact is, he's said things about me that are completely false, like I was posting under more than one name. I wasn't. I told him to either prove it or shut up about it, and he's done neither. And welcome! He can specualte all he wants. The fact that he won't prove it says more about him than me.

I don't think that David Steadson needs any help with disparaging his name. I do recall him saying that he lives by being accountable for himself and others should do so as well. Now when his own weird little hobby comes back to bite him, he suggests that it's the fault of others? Nice.

On top of all that, has no success whatsoever to speak of in Amway. What the.....?

No, I think it's safe to say that he himself has done a pretty good job of blackening his own eye.

*WHAM!* Quit hitting yourself!

*WHAM!* Quit hitting yourself!

Makes you wonder his motivation, doesn't it?

A message to him. I know he comes here.

Everytime you point one finger at other people, look at your hand. There's three more fingers pointing back at you.

You don't know everything. Accept that.

And have a good week!

David Steadson To Clear The Air on Amway Tools!

2009-02-01T11:58:00.003-06:00

Hooray! It's finally going to happen! David Steadson, the self anointed leader of the charge against Amway Critics, had decided that he's going to explain everything about the tools issue.

To Wit:

"Myths around BSM profit is probably the biggest single unaddressed issue still hanging around the 'net. Ever heard of Tex?

There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about it and I think it would be beneficial to clear it up."

Well thank God for that!

Apparently, Steadson hasn't lost his touch when it comes to ~~being a know it all asshole~~ hubris.

Who the hell does this guy think he is? This is coming from a guy who:

1. Hasn't achieved any notable success in Amway.

2. Doesn't qualify for the program which he is trying to explain.

3. His opinions are just that, and don't carry any more weight than those of the critics. Probably less, in fact, given the mystery behind his motives.

Look folks, make absolutely no mistake about it, Amway and the people who profit from the tools are the only entity which should be either explaining the tools profits. Not some failed Amway hack who has this bizarre hobby of trying to save a business that he doesn't even have the ability to demonstrate it works!

Amway has stated that some people make as much and in some cases more money from their tool income than Amway business. Apparently that's not good enough for our hero David. No, the corporation who he defends isn't qualified to clear the air up on that topic. It's up to Steadson.

The tools profiteers? Well, they're not talking unless they quit.

This was such a complete case study in arrogance that I just had to point it out.

Who is this guy anyway? I have never come across a guy in real life that had such a high opinion of himself!

Especially when you consider that he is qualified to teach people pretty much nothing about how to build a successful Amway business. Doesn't stop him though, he's so smart he doesn't need experience! That's our David Steadson!

I'm back from travelling for about a month. I was in the US, as well as British Columbia. Nice to be home, and it's back to the grind again.

Catch you on the next one...

PRo Amwayers taking a page from Amway's playbook?

2009-01-04T12:45:00.004-06:00

It would appear that the patriot defenders of Amway are taking a breather from vigorous discussion with their arch nemesis critics.

They've left a few discussions hanging, and have vowed over at David Steadson's website that they won't be engaging the critics because it's not a good use of time.

You can do your own translation of what that means. Personally? My opinion is they've taken a shit kicking because people call them out on their arrogance, know it all attitudes, and feigned sincerity.

They aren't fooling me, nor anyone else who has been following along. Fact of the matter is they aren't building their Amway business, they aren't achieving any kind of notable success, and they aren't making any headway with the Corporation's changes.

It's all still the same. Amway isn't enforcing the rules like they ~~said~~ implied they would.

Cripes, you had ~~David Steadson> IBOFB~~ doing it semi professionally and it hasn't helped the reputation!

How long will this last? It's anyone's guess, but there will always be the new gung ho Amway Distributors that will try and defend the business online, only to fizzle out.

Anyway, I should point out that crazy old IBOFB already didn't keep his resolution, to wit:

Re: Happy New Year!

by ibofightback on Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:37 pm

"2007 I made a resolution to stop posting on QBlog forums. Made it through the year!

This year I'll add the following -

Any JoeCool blog
Any Rocket blog
Any QIAC blog
Any Tex blog

And I also vow not to reply to any of their posts on other sites."

But then he pops up over here!:

IBOFB said...CG,

A quick reply, I've decided to stop wasting my time with the likes of rocket, who spreads private information like my name and where I live - information I have never given out in connection with my Amway blogging....

...If you'd care for any followup, feel free to ask on Amway Talk"

January 2, 2009 1:02 PM

So I'm not sure how much weight we can put into what IBOFB says.

Looks like he's given up the ghost about trying to remain anonymous though.

Good for him.

Seriously though folks, it's damn obvious to me that the Amway defenders have no desire to engage right now with the critics. I know why, and it's because when you are engaged in a conversation with a raw recruit who has no idea whatsoever about Amway and what it is, it's very easy to make them agreeable with your viewpoint.

After all, they're really in no position to argue are they? They don't know about the tools deception, the information control, the high prices, and they may not know about the poor reputation.

Pretty to easy to control that conversation, isn't it?

Now when those techniques are applied to someone who knows where the bear shit in the buckwheat, they are at a loss with how to handle it.

Enter the false sincerity and the hidden insults within kindly worded statements. But even those don't go the way they are planned because it's such a common part of the business that the critics don't let that go either!

And why should we? I mean really, we got some guy waging a war on critics who tries to dismiss critics as people who don't know what they're talking about, and for reasons unknown.

Then we got another gal who throws personal insults at people when she's trapped like a caged baboon, but tries to do it with (dis) grace so that it looks sincere and sweet. It doesn't work, and we aren't trying to just end an awkward conversation in which case 90% of people would just let it go.

If one of the regular critics was approached on the street by an IBO, 9 times out of 10, the critic would know more about Amway than the guy trying to recruit them.

So take a break Pro Amwayer! Do what your beloved Amway does. Look the other way and pretend the bad doesn't exist.

See how that works for ya!